Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 1001 posts

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#241

Post by ChrisLTD »

onion2k wrote: post #209
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

I hate the fact I have to use Apple TV to watch Servant, Disney+ to watch The Mandalorian, Netflix to watch Stranger Things, and Amazon Prime Video to watch The Boys, and HBO to watch Game of Thrones, and so on. I'd much rather all of those other companies gave Apple a 30% cut of their revenue.

It'd be nice if these companies could come to an agreement, but 30% seems to be too high a cut.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#242

Post by pier25 »

kevingadd wrote: post #149
pier25 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think 30% is excessive but as a developer my biggest gripe with the AppStore is definitely the tight grip Apple has over what's published. You might work for years on an app and all that effort can vanish into thin air if Apple decides they don't want it.

Retroactively! It'd be one thing if it was up-front rejections, but the internet is full of horror stories from developers who suddenly found that Apple had decided their product was no longer okay and that their customers didn't matter, blocking future updates. Not even necessarily taking it off the store, just ensuring it can never get bug fixes.

> It'd be one thing if it was up-front rejections

Well no because Apple needs to test the finished thing before it can decide whether it wants it or not.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#243

Post by simion314 »

BrianGragg wrote: post #214
SCHiM wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You install those yourself you know. I'd rather have a choice than not. I feel your pain in the sense that that I think user UX will take a hit, but I think that's less important than breaking the monopoly of the current app store. For example, I can't find apps with pornography or other types of things the high overlords at apple or Google have deemed inappropriate for me to have. That's bad. Apparently apps like Ma…

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

I think EA created a game store because it feels parasitic that Valve could take 30% of your sells, why not make your own store and keep the 30% .

What I would do is force EA to put their games on all stores, then on their own store they can give you a 25% discount because they don't have to pay the tax. Then people could decide if they want store A, B or C version.

If the store tax would be low enough there would not be such a pressure from the giant publishers to avoid the store, as a person that don't like giants I hope that this giants fighting each other will benefit us by breaking the monopolies and ensuring that all stores will play by fair rules and respect all consumer rights.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#244

Post by aardvarkr »

dijit wrote: post #206
leothecool wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not exactly a good thing that they leveraged itunes library vendor lock-in to drive market share early on. The anti-consumer aspects of their closed ecosystem directly resulted in their success. There's no doubt about it.

Sorry, I don't buy this at all. iTunes library (at least for Books and Music) is DRM-free and has been from an early stage (though _did_ launch with DRM). I've had great success in migrating my purchased items back and forth from linux with absolutely no issue. However now they're using streaming and I'm unable to easily "own" any music anymore... or at the very least it takes you off of the easy path.

Yeah, apple was one of the first to go DRM free for music. That was a big deal and a bold move by apple.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#245

Post by pjmlp »

enragedcacti wrote: post #182
pjmlp wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know, Epic is trying to dodge its use in an vain attempt to actually have a case.

You seem to really know a lot about EU laws and regulations, where did you get your law degree?

The same place as everyone else thinking that Epic has a case.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#246

Post by dkonofalski »

simion314 wrote: post #243
BrianGragg wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the choice is taken away from you though. Just like he said with the game market. If you want to play Game A, you go and download/install Game A's publishing app store. If you want to then play Game B, rinse and repeat. You will be forced to use so many different app stores and won't have a choice to NOT use their app store "IF" it progresses like it has on the desktop. No proof it will/won't either.

I think EA created a game store because it feels parasitic that Valve could take 30% of your sells, why not make your own store and keep the 30% . What I would do is force EA to put their games on all stores, then on their own store they can give you a 25% discount because they don't have to pay the tax. Then people could decide if they want store A, B or C version. If the store tax would be low enough there would no…

It's not parasitic of Valve, though. Valve created the storefront and platform that has all of those customers baked into it. EA is not just paying 30% for the privilege of selling their game, they're paying for the customer base that they haven't had to work to establish on that platform.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#247

Post by kgwxd »

adtac wrote: post #213
dubcanada wrote: post #184

I can hardly wait to use Amazon App Store to install Amazon and then open up the Epic Game Store to install random game and then open up EA Game Store to install random game and then open up Facebook App Store to install Facebook and then open up the Apple App Store to install the Blizzard App Store to install Hearthstone and then go back to the Apple App Store and update the Blizzard App Store so I can get the lates…

why would each of these companies bother creating a new store that requires eng resources, server costs, maintenance, etc. if the total cost was less than Apple's unreasonable fee? doesn't it simply mean that these companies perceive the value of Apple's App Store to be less than the cost?

I'm sure every company already has infrastructure for distributing digital resources over the internet, nothing more is needed unless someone builds a toll road into their platform.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#248

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

metiscus wrote: post #187
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even so, Apple has gotten far more whacks for violating EU law than anyone else in this space. What are you referring to here? Antitrust? If so, please provide some pointers. There're a lot of cases, not aware of many wins.

Note that I am not asserting that Apple has more than anyone else, that would require more research than this. What I have found in recent history is one major case from France: Apple fined 1.23 Billion for Price-Fixing in France https://venturebeat.com/2020/03/16/apple-fined-record-1-23-b... Apple also has 4 open Antitrust investigations (all opened on the same date and likely interrelated) going on in the EU (irres…

So, to be clear, there's no successful antitrust prosecution of Apple under EU law, nor one that relates to iOS or the App Store.

On the other hand, there is a €4.34bn fine for Google for market abuses relating to bundling of Google services in Android, as well as a €2.4bn fine for favoring Google Shopping in its search product, and a €1.4bn fine for abusive practices in Google AdSense.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#249

Post by ralmidani »

I avoid being a persistent fanboy/hater toward any company, and try to consider each case on its merits. Some of the concerns regarding multiple app stores on the device (which raises issues of security, privacy, and even storage space) are valid. But they fail to address a huge problem: Apple's draconian policy on in-app purchases. If IAP were to be opened up and become more competitive, I might stick with Apple's just for security and convenience, but the alternatives would be there, and I personally wouldn't mind a lack of alternative app stores.

Edit: to clarify, I'm saying I wouldn't mind having one app store if Apple's stranglehold on IAP could be relaxed (whether by choice or by law).

Another edit: Apple could also allow one-off sideloading, but not allow an app to install other apps (i.e. become a separate app store). This would be a win-win for consumers. Assuming that's who everyone cares about, of course.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#250

Post by judge2020 »

toinetoine wrote: post #192
ericmay wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Epic demands Apple do thing = bad for Apple (good for Epic) no way Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) > Apple demand Facebook do thing = Good for Apple (bad for FB) yes way Apple demands Facebook do a thing = Good for Apple, good for customers (bad for Facebook) As a customer in these equations, I'm siding with Apple. > That's the very definition of "competition" someth…

> Epic demands Apple do a thing = bad for Apple, bad for customers (good for Epic) How is allowing developers to use alternate payment platforms "bad for customers"? Or, if not on the phone, at least to allow them to add funds to their account from the browser/another platform and use it in their iOS app?

So Apple allows Epic to put their store on iOS, but of course has to allow anyone to put their Store on iOS since otherwise it wouldn't be competitive. What about when Facebook makes Facebook its own marketplace, and the apps it distributes bypass the IDFA and track users without the popup, and of course don't have a privacy nutrition label? What about the hundreds of other $adtech companies bootstrapping their privacy-invasive, scam, and malicious apps (think 'your phone has a virus, call apple support' scams), is that not bad for the consumer?

Surely we can just apply the Windows argument of "well they should get antivirus software and stop browsing shady sites" and go about our day having improved the landscape for the tech-literate, while having increased the risk other people take on by using their phone if they don't know the first thing about ensuring the apps they download are safe or privacy-preserving. That's why people buy iPhone - you literally do not have to worry about malicious App Store apps.

Post reply on HN