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Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

reuters.com

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Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#161

Post by efraim »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #131
efraim wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

General purpose computing. A game console or Tesla computer is not made for general programs, they have specific purposes. It's also a case of "you know it when you see it", iPhone wasn't a big platform when it launched but now it's the primary platform for many peoples computer needs, it should not be exclusively run by a private company.

Explain the difference in functional ability between the iPad vs the Switch? Xbox series x? PS5? Web Browser, email, streaming media? All possible on any of the devices. The only difference is that Apple is better at building devices that people like. Apple built the platform, built the hardware, designed the OS, and built the sdk/API's but now they aren't allowed to control their own platform? How does that make any…

If there's a computer in it, there is no clear technical difference. The difference is how people use it. You don't use a switch as your only computer device, banks and stores don't need to create apps for all those platforms to be competitive.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#162

Post by FlownScepter »

kevingadd wrote: post #152
zepto wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those had an actual monopoly - literally no alternative service provider.

If I want to use FaceTime to talk to my mother, the only way I can do that is by purchasing an iPhone. What's the difference? Do I have to buy my mom a new Android phone and repurchase all her apps and digital content to exercise my Consumer Freedom?

A nonexhaustive list of FaceTime alternatives: Skype, Facebook Messenger, Discord, Zoom, GoToMeeting, Google Hangouts, Cisco Webex, Microsoft Teams, Spike, ICQ, Tox, Viber, WhatsApp, Line, WeChat, Wire.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#163

Post by mfontani »

the_duke wrote: post #102
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> This isn't the case on Android. I'd argue that it is till the case on Android. Yes, alternate stores are possible, but they are severely handicapped. First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Epic gave up on running their own store on Android due to the difficulties…

IIRC the (proposed? is it in place yet?) EU cap is 0.2% for debit cards and 0.3% for credit cards.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#165

Post by ecf »

the_duke wrote: post #102
aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> This isn't the case on Android. I'd argue that it is till the case on Android. Yes, alternate stores are possible, but they are severely handicapped. First, manual APK install has to be enabled in obscure settings that come with a "scary" warning. Then they can't provide auto-updates but require a manual confirmation for each version update. Epic gave up on running their own store on Android due to the difficulties…

> not being in control of your own device is not acceptable.

I’m not trying to be snarky here but...don’t buy it?

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#166

Post by zepto »

aboringusername wrote: post #11

It feels a bit hypocritical when Apple laughs at FB for complaining about their new tracking pop-up yet when the shoe's on the other foot and Apple may actually have to compete on its own platform they double down and defend their right to be judge, jury and executioner. Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing. No computer platform should be allowed to prevent sideloading or other st…

> Apple competing with third party app stores on iOS is going to be amazing.

No - it’s not going to add anything at all for users except being forced to deal with a bunch of shady app stores, some of which will be deeply hostile to privacy.

Developers will also be forced to support multiple stores and sets of rules. Dealing with this will eliminate any possible cost advantage.

Everyone loses except for the new group of middlemen who get to take a cut.

> This isn't the case on Windows. This isn't the case on Android. Or Linux for that matter.

It sounds like you are saying there is plenty of choice for people who don’t want a walled garden.

> It's more disappointing it takes 10 years for regulators to step-in and say "that's bad, no more, open up your platform".

It sounds like you are saying this should never have been allowed, despite there being no legal reason against it.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#167

Post by csunbird »

adamdusty wrote: post #96
dpkonofa wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean by that? The rules apply to Amazon just the same as to anyone else.

Do they? All in app purchases have to be made through Apple's payment system. If you can buy amazon prime through the app then Apple should be taking a 30% cut. They might already do that, I have no idea, but it seems unlikely Amazon would agree to it.

Delivery of physical goods and services are allowed to have other means of payment, I think.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#168

Post by pjmlp »

sunahe wrote: post #148
covercash wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do have that right, it’s called Android.

Cool, how do I install it on my iPhone? The one I bought with my money?

The same way I install iOS on my Android phone I bought with my money.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#169

Post by maratc »

Anytime Epic/Apple thing comes up, a very relevant quote is what their judge (YGR) said on their case:

> “Well plaintiffs always want me to define relevant markets as narrowly as possible. It helps their case. And defendants always want me to define markets as broad as possible, because it helps their case.”

The big elephant in the room is gaming consoles.

If you see iPhone more or less in line with PC/Mac, you may already have made up your mind on how "relevant markets" are defined, and so naturally pre-inclined to side with Epic.

OTOH if you see it more or less in line with Xbox/Playstation/Switch (every one of them having a unique store that charges 30%), you may naturally be pre-inclined to side with Apple.

The judges will eventually get to define what the "relevant market" is, and no amount of HN arguments will change that.

If I were Apple, I would just make a version of an iPhone hardware-enabled to have alternative stores, and I would sell it for a surplus of $1000. This way both sides can have their cake, and the market can decide.

Re: Epic Games steps up Apple fight with EU antitrust complaint

#170

Post by leothecool »

nickysielicki wrote: post #98
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you can argue for less software freedoms, while paying a 30% tax for any app you distribute, is honestly mind boggling to me. >On the one hand, Apple is acting as a store curator and demanding that its customers be made aware of tracking software. This sounds like marketing. Apple is limiting what apps their customers have access to. I wonder if you would make the same argument if Apple starts blocking websites?

It’s not about the outcome, it’s about reasoning from first principles and going where ever that leads you, regardless of how much you dislike the outcome. Nobody has to buy an iPhone, iPad, or MacBook. Apple has the right to create the software ecosystem they want to create. Their success in mobile computing is arguably a direct result of their closed ecosystem.

Its not exactly a good thing that they leveraged itunes library vendor lock-in to drive market share early on. The anti-consumer aspects of their closed ecosystem directly resulted in their success. There's no doubt about it.
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