It's there in IT industry also; Girls silently suffer / quit jobs :(
'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
141–150 of 643 posts
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.
> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. "I give you $1 bn if you kill that one kid" and you answer "I'll never kill a kid, no matter how much you pay me" to which I reply: "Your answer is illustrating your privilege". Certainly you see the gigantic sophism in your comment?
No, actually I think this is a fairly poor analogy. In your example, one is being asked to harm _another_ for their benefit. In the other, one is being asked to harm _one’s self_ for their benefit.
However terrible and painful the example is, abstractly, I believe people are free to decide what happens to themselves, but not to others. Murder is universally illegal, while prostitution, arguably, shouldn’t be, and isn’t in many places.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#143Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
It makes my wonder, just how prevalent is that in the tech industry? I'm pretty sure it falls somewhere between 0 and music industry, non-inclusively.
Probably a lot less of a problem since so many tech dudes are dudes.
lots of fairly high profile harassment cases in the industry, especially if you expand it to include game dev
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#145The big question is will internet free the good artists that were gatekeeped due to refusing debasing their core values. I have a feeling that only those ready to overcome any such hurdles have the grit to pursue a stage life, but I can be wrong.
> The big question is will internet free the good artists that were gatekeeped I don't think so. What they need the most is publicity, and this is not magically granted by internet. Just take a look at e.g. Spotify; I'm sure there are hundreds of extremely gifted artists sitting down at barely a few dozens listenings, just because no one found them.
Spotify charges $1/song/month as a listing fee. I bet a majority of Spotify artists pay more to Spotify than they receive.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Either way it usually has nothing to do with the job. Should we really be accepting of managers hiring/promoting people based on how likely they are to fuck them?
No, of course. But it still is an open door to many people who wouldn't be there otherwise. I'm not giving any assessment whether this is good or bad.
it is bad for promotions/opportunities at work to be doled out on any other basis than a good-faith estimate of capability. that is, assuming you agree that the point of work is to get work done.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#147Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#148The big question is will internet free the good artists that were gatekeeped due to refusing debasing their core values. I have a feeling that only those ready to overcome any such hurdles have the grit to pursue a stage life, but I can be wrong.
> The big question is will internet free the good artists that were gatekeeped I don't think so. What they need the most is publicity, and this is not magically granted by internet. Just take a look at e.g. Spotify; I'm sure there are hundreds of extremely gifted artists sitting down at barely a few dozens listenings, just because no one found them.
But it's interesting. Do we like artists due to marketing only ? Or seducing feature over artistic quality. A small but gifted artist on Spotify could, in theory (in theory), generate word of mouth at quickly get known. Sometimes I believe that labels were filters for that. They could see who was just very good and who had some 'it factor'.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#149Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you really not see the difference? In prostitution sex is the product being sold. In other environments sex is a distorting factor that puts those not willing to engage in it at a disadvantage and can cause great harm when it becomes an expectation.
I don't think it said they were forcibly raped; but that the sex was in exchange for something of value, like opportunity or promotion. So long as both parties are adults and in agreement, the "not willing to engage" part doesn't apply. Maybe it's still unethical, though.
the point is that even if the participants are okay with it, it still harms people who are unwilling to participate. if I'm a sex worker, my work is sex. nothing wrong with charging money for that. if I'm a software engineer, my work has nothing to do with sex, and my career progression should not be impeded by my refusal to have sex with my boss.
Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you really not see the difference? In prostitution sex is the product being sold. In other environments sex is a distorting factor that puts those not willing to engage in it at a disadvantage and can cause great harm when it becomes an expectation.
I don't think it said they were forcibly raped; but that the sex was in exchange for something of value, like opportunity or promotion. So long as both parties are adults and in agreement, the "not willing to engage" part doesn't apply. Maybe it's still unethical, though.
I was intending to make a more general statement on the effects of the practice on all participants and in other industries.
The disadvantage for being "not willing to engage" would be applied to those potential artists who refused the sexual advances of these people and were therefore passed over; despite potentially being a better candidate. I think you could even argue that there may be an element of coercion if the person was willing to engage originally. Now that your manager is responsible for your career are you really safe in saying no the second time?
The question is really whether we're okay with allowing sexual favours to be placed over merit when accepting people into an industry. I think the answer is unequivocally no, even in industries where sex is the product.