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UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

thetimes.co.uk

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Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#21

Post by libertine »

dageshi wrote: post #11
libertine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually these initiatives should be extremely transparent, and they're the exact opposite. That's not good. A current example is the covid 19 vaccine contracts, which were multi billion dollar/euro/pound deals, with accelerated research and approvals, and so far only one contract was made public. It is specially concerning when some vaccines were developed with public funding.

It doesn't matter. Genuinely, the only thing that mattered was working, safe vaccines as quickly as possible. Whatever government paid is absolute peanuts compared to the costs associated with locking down economies let alone the lives potentially saved. Covid19 was and is a crisis, you may well have a point in terms of other initiatives in this space, but with covid all that mattered was finding a solution as quickl…

Well, I disagree.

It matters a lot, because who the hell knows what else is going on those contracts. It's not like any pharmaceutical company was gonna sit this one out.

Some of these companies were into shady shit in the past, and while they are playing a role in this pandemic, I'd be way more comfortable know exactly what they are getting out of this and at what cost to the tax payers.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#22

Post by mcny »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #14

Why is the government spending tax money on creating new technology with huge risk? Surely this is something that investment funds should be doing, with the investors appopriately aware of the risks? Who is going to benefit from any discovered new tech? Are the benefits going to be socialised, or is it just the risk? If it was supporting pure research - finding great researchers and freeing them from the grant treadm…

> If it was supporting pure research - finding great researchers and freeing them from the grant treadmill - I'd be supportive, but this doesn't sound like that.

Same here. I am all for more research but we want more transparency, not less.

> Ministers will announce plans tomorrow for an £800 million scientific research agency legally entitled to invest in projects that are likely to fail and which will be exempted from freedom of information laws.

This makes no sense to me. Why would they need to be exempt from freedom of information?

> It will be exempt from rules designed to prevent taxpayers’ money from being invested in projects with little chance of success. Ministers hope that the agency, to be set up next year, will produce next-generation technology.

This I completely support. From what I understand, the COVID vaccine wouldn't be here if it wasn't for some scientists working on some seemingly dead-end path for years.

Overall, I don't understand this initiative at all. The last thing I'd want is pulling funding away form fundamental research and putting it in some Instagram clone. I'd even be OK if this money went to some kind of James Bond/Quartermaster/DARPA thing instead.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#23

Post by andy_ppp »

toyg wrote: post #4
mensetmanusman wrote: post #2

That’s great. Removing a platform for people that say, in hindsight, ‘it was obvious that was going to fail’ is a step in the right direction. If western societies insist on outsourcing R&D through misguided tax laws, they have no idea the amount of harm they are doing to the next generation of young people (who will be subservient to the innovating countries that were smarter in their policies).

I'm not so positive. There is potential for this to become just another way to channel pork to friends and cronies. Which, considering the track record of the current executive, is probably the most likely scenario. I'm all for DARPA-like initiatives, but when it comes to taxpayers' money we should have decent accountability mechanisms.

The current UK government has a blacklist of left wing journalists who they won’t respond to freedom of information act requests and they are fighting a culture war about bullshit while Dominic Cummings has the gall to claim his friends happen to be the only marketing company in the UK who are trustworthy!

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#24

Post by emteycz »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #15

First the European fund and now this. The last thing I want is for my taxes is to go into venture capital. Especially if it's run by the government. I wonder what's the best place where to run to, to escape this trend. Maybe South America or South East Asia?

South East Asia is big on government-led venture capital and state-run business incubators/accelerators and other kinds of business development activities. Even the communist countries.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#25

Post by toyg »

jokethrowaway wrote: post #15

First the European fund and now this. The last thing I want is for my taxes is to go into venture capital. Especially if it's run by the government. I wonder what's the best place where to run to, to escape this trend. Maybe South America or South East Asia?

There is no escape.

The only way out of this is to build better ways to keep the powerful accountable.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#27

Post by libertine »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #13
libertine wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually these initiatives should be extremely transparent, and they're the exact opposite. That's not good. A current example is the covid 19 vaccine contracts, which were multi billion dollar/euro/pound deals, with accelerated research and approvals, and so far only one contract was made public. It is specially concerning when some vaccines were developed with public funding.

>Usually these initiatives should be extremely transparent, and they're the exact opposite The downside is that when they're too transparent politics gets involved and you can't study touchy things because people don't want the risk of conclusions they don't like. Imagine the uproar if the navy said they think asbestos PPE might be less lethal than what it's protecting you from in some circumstances so they were plan…

Well then maybe that's the cost of it, the public scrutiny of touchy things and political responsibility to justify such endeavors. It's like accountability is a bad thing.

If politicians would refused that, then that's a problem of politics, not of transparency.

I do understand that some subject might be too difficult to explain to the public, but that's more of an annoyance and extra work then anything else. Also could be a symptom of a education system with a lot of problems.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#28

Post by ChrisRR »

turbinerneiter wrote: post #19

* let universities and public research starve for money * drown them in documentation paperwork for the little money they get * give money to private companies for free and without transparency Corruption.

Tories*

When the tories give out money to their friends, it's for the greater good, remember?

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#29

Post by bko »

jdavis703 wrote: post #17
motohagiography wrote: post #12

I still don't see how any government granting committee can outperform hundreds of private venture funds competing for exposure to new opportunities. Even if you have a government dept. of 10x geniuses, they don't scale to compete with a healthy investment community. As described, the risks I see are that, it has the incentives for a patronage slush fund, there will be selection bias to hedge political risk around pe…

The internet came out of a US government funded “advanced research projects agency.” It took decades before VCs monetized that research.

Finance was very immature industry at that time. There wasn't a lot of money in private investment funds and the investment vehicles to capitalize on this research didn't yet exist. Today's private market would likely seize on an opportunity like the internet. There is appetite for long term focus in today's investors. Just look at PE (price-earnings) ratios of today's stocks, and the frothy revenue multiples in valuations over the last ten years.

Re: UK to launch taxpayer-funded high-risk tech research agency exempt from FOI

#30

Post by jack_riminton »

If its our answer to DARPA then good. I only hope the money will be disbursed in ways similar to the DARPA challenges and not in the usual chronyist way of the UK

There's a shocking number of people high up in UK tech influence circles who got there solely by networking, holding events and being on the peripheries of successful startups

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