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'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

bbc.com

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Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#111

Post by krapp »

texasbigdata wrote: post #101

This is probably the most interesting comment here. Especially (as a moderate to liberal) with the cancelling of Parkor which was deeply troubling. Is anyone speaking publicly and/or thinking deeply on this future of everyone in the value chain being able to deny freedom of speech? Obviously in some cases it's warranted (violence), but in others where the attack is very pointed (heard instances of cloudfare being pet…

>(heard instances of cloudfare being petitioned to take down content which is literally internet plumbing)

It's not, it's a private company. Most internet infrastructure is private companies offering their services under arbitrary terms, because that's the only possible way to have such an infrastructure without government controlling or regulating the internet, which we don't want.

And petitioning is free speech - people have the right to petition anyone about anything. There's nothing to be "relatively concerned" about here, except maybe the lack of competition in the DDoS space, but that's a free market issue, not a free speech issue. If too many people think Cloudflare has stepped out of line, someone will create an alternative, just as alternative right-wing platforms like Gab and Parler were created by people unsatisfied with mainstream social media.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#112

Post by leesalminen »

ceejayoz wrote: post #104
leesalminen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. This is an argument for making sure people don't go hungry, not for letting rich people rape people who want a job.

I’m not here to argue about a hypothetical utopia where nobody on the planet has to make terrible choices to protect their life. I’m just providing a commentary on the state of the world we do live in. Obviously this hypothetical utopia (or any step in that direction) would be superior to what we have now.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#113

Post by api »

fulafel wrote: post #107
api wrote: post #14

Any time you have an industry where the number of people who want to do the work vastly outstrips demand and where there are gatekeepers, you are going to get a culture of abuse. It comes in various forms: sexual or other inappropriate favors for advancement, verbal abuse, or just abusive working conditions like sweatshop hours and burnout culture.

I wonder about game development, it shares a lot of the traits.

Game development is known for being a death march burnout culture.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#114

Post by beckman466 »

mam2 wrote: post #94
beckman466 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, if Jeff Besos would come to you and say: I invest into your startup $100M if I can fuck you into the ass tree times, very high percentage of HN crowd would immediately say yes. Ew. This comment is atrocious and shows your privilege. It sounds like you haven't listened to many stories of women experiencing systemic abuse, misogyny and humiliation (and who experience most of this abuse in the music industry).…

> Ew. This comment is atrocious and shows your privilege. It sounds like you haven't listened to many stories of women experiencing systemic abuse and misogyny. It scares me that people say this stuff publicly. The point is that for 2 girls complaining about abuse, in this industry there are 100 who perfectly know what they are doing and happy to play the sexual favor game. The only part where you are right is that i…

> in this industry there are 100 who perfectly know what they are doing and happy to play the sexual favor game.

Do they 'know', or have they just come to accept this level of violence and danger becuase of their gender?

> The only part where you are right is that it should be made more public, so that "innocent" (not like amber heard) girls would not get so surprised then.

Ah jeez, speculating about Amber's innocence is just tabloid celebrity gawking at this point. Have you met her or heard her story in person? No.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#115

Post by leesalminen »

beckman466 wrote: post #105
leesalminen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

> To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. I hear you and get where you're coming from, yet my take is that I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. Also this isn't about a 'facing a trade off' or sex work, it's about dehumaniz…

> I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change.

We can agree here!

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#116

Post by leetcrew »

kgwxd wrote: post #62
subpixel wrote: post #9

I’m reminded of an axiom, which I will paraphrase: Everything is about sex. Except sex, which is about power.

Says more about the speaker than sex itself. Sounds like the words of someone with mental health issues.

kevin spacey said this in the first season of house of cards.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#117

Post by dspillett »

robscallsign wrote: post #93
jmt_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not that I'm supporting asexual erasure, but sayings like the quote in GP are usually fairly general. Statistically, there are much much fewer asexual people than not, so in general it may hold but that's not to say it holds for every single person.

The average human has one breast and one testicle.

And less than two arms.

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#118

Post by ceejayoz »

leesalminen wrote: post #112
ceejayoz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while. This is an argument for making sure people don't go hungry, not for letting rich people rape people who want a job.

I’m not here to argue about a hypothetical utopia where nobody on the planet has to make terrible choices to protect their life. I’m just providing a commentary on the state of the world we do live in. Obviously this hypothetical utopia (or any step in that direction) would be superior to what we have now.

I like to think of "not being raped" as "bare minimum standard to strive for", not "hypothetical utopia".

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#119

Post by [deleted] »

beckman466 wrote: post #105
leesalminen wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. The fact that you wouldn’t even consider it shows that you haven’t gone hungry for a while.

> To me your comment is illustrating your privilege. Prostituting oneself three times to be financially set for life could be a perfectly acceptable trade off for millions of people. I hear you and get where you're coming from, yet my take is that I want to shift the dynamics of the system for everyone. Systems change, not personal change. Also this isn't about a 'facing a trade off' or sex work, it's about dehumaniz…

[deleted]

Re: 'Sexual favours were the norm in music industry'

#120

Post by vmception »

beckman466 wrote: post #89
nabla9 wrote: post #13

It makes perfect sense. Music industry is a economics of superstars. https://www.jstor.org/stable/1803469 Very few stars get huge profits and after that it's long slim tail. Talent or high work ethic is not enough for success, "getting discovered" aka someone likes you and invests the initial money and effort is another factor. If personal effort is not enough and the artist has nothing else, selling your ass for an…

> I mean, if Jeff Besos would come to you and say: I invest into your startup $100M if I can fuck you into the ass tree times, very high percentage of HN crowd would immediately say yes. Ew. This comment is atrocious and shows your privilege. It sounds like you haven't listened to many stories of women experiencing systemic abuse, misogyny and humiliation (and who experience most of this abuse in the music industry).…

The reaction anybody views probably comes from their own prior life experiences.

That doesn't change that a very high percentage of the HN crowd would take this offer are men. A lot men are not in a position to reject offers about their body's sexual value such that it turns into abuse.

A lot of men (99%?) don't get the privilege of making a choice to prove themselves in the business world, versus distinctly with their body.

If this was a more frequent choice, the gender representation in tech/corporate leadership roles would even out much faster. Because less men would be there, having chosen a different opportunity. I perceive this as an underrepresented reality.

I viewed that comment as referring to that crowd.

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