Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#161

Post by steveBK123 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

shadowgovt wrote: post #67

mmcconnell1618 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the author is correct that some big tech companies create a culture where going to 11am yoga is more important that crunching out a few more lines of code. He's correct that if your focus is on building and scaling product, this culture reduces the velocity of change. However, I see a couple of things the author is missing: 1) Work life balance is about employee long term retention and places like Google spen…

It's the sprint versus marathon mindset. A small startup has a finite amount of time to either become a big company in their own right or do something so noteworthy that a big company sees the need to acquire them. Nothing else matters. There are minimal incentives to invest in the long-term welfare of your employees because in the long term, the company doesn't exist. You can't even guarantee that an acquisition wil…

Re: It's the sprint versus marathon mindset.

As someone who did track in high school, the whole agile nomenclature around "sprint" continues to rub me the wrong way. If you aren't a startup facing a launch-or-fail moment, the approach should be much more that of a marathon.

I was joking with my wife that "sprint" to me implies that you go all out and then take a long break before you go again. We should be treating the longterm plan like a marathon and the intermediate steps like "splits".

If you are working on a product that's been around for years , the idea that you are an all-star for delivering your 5 points the day before your 2 weeks sprint ends and a lazy jerk if you deliver it the day after sprint ends just incentivizes a lot of shorterm-ism and corner cutting.

The model of working "all out" and your "break" for planning is a 2 hour meeting in between sprints where you get praised or scorned for a 10% difference in delivery speed is..

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#162

Post by dd36 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

iandanforth wrote: post #108

I think his derision of entitled ladder-climbing employees is valid from the perspective of someone who sees "building something valuable" as the point of employment. There is a whole community however that sees wealth acquisition as the point of employment. Even if it's "merely" joining the ranks of the top 5% this is lauded as success by many. Lawyers, doctors, consultants, stock traders, all the high paying profes…

Same. I can live in a hut in Guatemala if I feel challenged and am enjoying my work. Wealth is fun but so long as my family and I are good, it’s not a motivating factor. Solving problems is.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#163

Post by BugWatch » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

strken wrote: post #62

There's a pervasive belief by managers that involuntarily working weekends for an extended period of time will increase rather than decrease the total work done, and that engineering output can be measured in "hours", that I find absolutely ridiculous. If I think back over the times when I've been most productive, I've had the kind of trusted flexibility that allows me to work 14 hours one day to get a feature in bef…

I guess you probably heard that classic joke that the (project) manager is the person who thinks that a baby can be produced and delivered in a single month given nine women to do it.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#164

Post by scrollaway » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

madeofpalk wrote: post #132

ramraj07 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different way of putting it would be whether an employee takes personal responsibility towards their work. It's not incongruent with a balanced life. To me It just means occasdinally you might stay late at work, once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, and if something breaks you're not able to log off until you fix it. Doesn't mean you cant take Friday's off of or…

> once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, I will never do this. I havent done this since I was very very young at my first job and i didn't know better. I couldn't think of anything sader or more depressing that giving away my own personal time for someone else. I'm not going to work on the weekend. I've got much better things to do, like play video games or literall…

Uh, I agree with the sentiment of not wanting to work for free, but

> I couldn't think of anything sader or more depressing that giving away my own personal time for someone else.

You just described a job.

Whether you're giving your time away or getting paid for giving it up makes no difference to the fact you are parting with it in order to produce for someone else.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#165

Post by andor » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

itg wrote: post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

That's not how I read it.

He clearly states that he understands the value of work-life balance, but there are workplaces where work is just not the #1 priority during business hours anymore. And that's totally fine and I'm happy if it works for people and their employers. But it's not viable for startups that need to find product-market-fit before burning through all their cash. Or companies trying to make best-in-class products.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#166

Post by Nimitz14 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

ramraj07 wrote: post #76

itg wrote: post #24

Another "leader" who complains about employees wanting work life balance and they are extremely entitled. These are the type of managers you want to avoid. I'm sure many Googlers are happy you left.

It is not a fake problem. Of course, working hard all the time is not a badge to be worn and is not by itself an end, but it's also true that SV tech community is filled to the brim with people thinking very highly of themselves when the reality is they don't contribute much. What the author is asking for is that employees take a degree of personal responsibility without needing to give up on a concept of personal li…

Great comment. I completely agree.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#167

Post by throwaway667555 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

asidiali wrote: post #114

slibhb wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they really complained about not getting compensated for buying their own food during lockdown I think "entitled" is a fair descriptor. This is the first time I've read one of these blogs where the author complains about it being "practically impossible to fire someone". To me, that adds an air of authenticity to the complaining. In my experience too, the inability to fire people for reasons other than "this perso…

Agree and disagree. Without pushing a point too hard, I will ask you this - what if your employment contract states you are to receive $X,000 per year in food or food stipend? Would you be in favor of employees pushing for subsidized food while remote? Ok, and there’s a deadline at work. There’s also a deadline at your spouses work, your kid is sick, and they took off work to look after them last time. What do you do…

Any reasonable person understands that "compensation includes food stipend of $8000" in a contract means they get $8000 if they're home. Clearly GP is referring to less cut-and-dry scenarios, i.e., nearly all scenarios in this domain.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#168

Post by mortehu » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

chrisseaton wrote: post #23

Do you really have to wear those hats when you join Google? How long do you have to wear them for?

You don't have to participate in the Noogler orientation week at all. You can just get straight to work if that's what floats your boat.

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#169

Post by Matticus_Rex » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

BugWatch wrote: post #128

ramraj07 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different way of putting it would be whether an employee takes personal responsibility towards their work. It's not incongruent with a balanced life. To me It just means occasdinally you might stay late at work, once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, and if something breaks you're not able to log off until you fix it. Doesn't mean you cant take Friday's off of or…

Simple question - is there (some kind/means of (extra)) payment involved? If the answer is no, then that's a resounding no (for me, at least). I might love and adore my job (and the workplace), but no way in hell will it be allowed to impinge on my private/personal time: sleeping and "regular" work already essentially takes 2/3 of it ( too much ), and that doesn't even include the time for "context shifting" (mental…

Well, that's the thing -- no one directly pays me extra when I work an odd night or weekend to make sure things get out in a timely manner, but I also definitely only have the salary/etc. I do because of the responsibility I take (which includes that willingness).

Re: Why did I leave Google or, why did I stay so long?

#170

Post by ramraj07 » Wed, Feb 17, 2021, 2:40 PM UTC

BugWatch wrote: post #128

ramraj07 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A different way of putting it would be whether an employee takes personal responsibility towards their work. It's not incongruent with a balanced life. To me It just means occasdinally you might stay late at work, once in awhile an interesting problem gets you working on the company laptop all Saturday, and if something breaks you're not able to log off until you fix it. Doesn't mean you cant take Friday's off of or…

Simple question - is there (some kind/means of (extra)) payment involved? If the answer is no, then that's a resounding no (for me, at least). I might love and adore my job (and the workplace), but no way in hell will it be allowed to impinge on my private/personal time: sleeping and "regular" work already essentially takes 2/3 of it ( too much ), and that doesn't even include the time for "context shifting" (mental…

Exactly, you do you buddy. Let's just not act as if it's some God given right that you only work 40 hours for outrageous sums of money. We are not talking about minimum wage workers, and his point is they're not even putting in the 40 hours anyway. All he's asking is that he wants to have a different culture within his team. It's not his intention to force people who don't share his values to work against their will. And as much as it might be hard for some to believe, there are people who don't need a constant amount of private time that's mandated by law (especially when we are not middle class or poor). I want to work on interesting things, learn how to be as effective as I can be at them, keep improving myself in ways that matter to me, and contribute meaningfully to whatever the hell it is that I'm paid to do (and be okay with contributing to that cause). And then I want to find and work with people with similar minds. Clearly we exist.