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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#871

Post by shireboy »

dalbasal wrote: post #853
roenxi wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is annoying when this sort of event happens and everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. It makes more sense to be talking about the 2011 outages in terms of what went wrong than the 2021 ones - because we have actual information on 2011 instead of "things went wrong!" now. I want to thank you personally for injecting a PDF into the discussion, but also positively asser…

This is meta/tangent, but I've had similar conversations a few times recently. Seems to be in the zeitgeist. Re: everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. Maybe, hopefully... the epidemic is humbling us. It's been significant and long lasting enough to rub our noses in whatever opinions we so brashly got behind too early. Professors and peasants alike. We're more likely to…

I have yet to see any of my friends and definitely not politicians (of any stripe) humbled about anything pandemic. If anything there’s a doubling down and mental gymnastics to explain away inconsistencies or hide lack of knowledge. I’d love to share your optimism- seriously- do you have an example in mind?

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#872

Post by tclancy »

maxnoe wrote: post #811
pault wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, there were sub zero temperatures in Dallas last night.

How badly are your homes insulated that you get internal=external temperature in mere hours???

Shut off your heat for a couple of days and report back.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#873

Post by yetihehe »

chrisseaton wrote: post #814
trianglem wrote: post #641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? That’s way below freezing and totally unsafe. Why don’t you sleep in your car? (WARNING: Make sure your exhaust is uncovered and you’re not in your shed)

> What? That’s way below freezing and totally unsafe. How do you think people safely camp in cold climates? You can sleep safely at far far below zero in a sleeping bag.

In a sleeping bag which is rated for that temperature, sometimes cheaper bags are for like -5°C, which can be VERY uncomfortable already for +5°C.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#874

Post by todd8 »

I'm sure that Texas could have prepared for this cold weather better. However, to be fair, its a rare for the weather to be this cold in Texas.

Even in climates where there cold weather is common, cold weather disasters still happen. The 1998 North American Ice Storm caused power outages that lasted weeks. It affected Ontario, Quebec and Main. It left 4,000,000 people in Canada and 700,000 in Main without power for weeks. Twenty-five people died from the cold, 12 more from related flooding caused by Ice. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_1998_North_American_ic...

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#875

Post by u678u »

zamadatix wrote: post #511
u678u wrote: post #74

Not many people are talking about home solar but its a real problem. Its nice to have your own solar power and then use the grid only when you need it. However that means you need idle power plants and transmission 90% of the year just for those cold un-sunny days. If power prices are regulated its a mugs game. I see bans on home solar coming. Maybe if you can disconnect from the grid with batteries it solves the pro…

People aren't talking about it because it's something like 0.2% of summer energy production in TX, a sunny state, so a very far off problem compared to pretty much any other power related issue or concern to solve for.

I can't find a good source but an old site says 300k homes have solar panel a few years ago, by now it could realistically be 5%. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/19/the-us-states-leading-the-wa...

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#876

Post by mercurysmessage »

shireboy wrote: post #869
roenxi wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is annoying when this sort of event happens and everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. It makes more sense to be talking about the 2011 outages in terms of what went wrong than the 2021 ones - because we have actual information on 2011 instead of "things went wrong!" now. I want to thank you personally for injecting a PDF into the discussion, but also positively asser…

I agree and have been feeling this more lately. You know this is already being politicized. Armchair investigators are suddenly becoming power grid experts. The complex reality of balancing a huge diverse power grid is becoming an “easy” problem - if only the evil other side had done what my media source and politician said they should! It’s tricky - I also have a problem waiting months for a slow inefficient governm…

"You know this is already being politicized"

"I also have a problem waiting months for a slow inefficient government agency to figure out how to cover their collective asses"

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#877

Post by kevingadd »

roenxi wrote: post #782
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

It is annoying when this sort of event happens and everyone starts deciding what they believe to be truth within 48 hours of the outage. It makes more sense to be talking about the 2011 outages in terms of what went wrong than the 2021 ones - because we have actual information on 2011 instead of "things went wrong!" now. I want to thank you personally for injecting a PDF into the discussion, but also positively asser…

People aren't leaping to conclusions here, this isn't speculation. This has happened at least twice, and there were a bunch of clear recommendations from 2011 that weren't followed. The state government and other sources are already providing information on the current crisis and its causes.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#878

Post by shireboy »

mercurysmessage wrote: post #876
shireboy wrote: post #869

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree and have been feeling this more lately. You know this is already being politicized. Armchair investigators are suddenly becoming power grid experts. The complex reality of balancing a huge diverse power grid is becoming an “easy” problem - if only the evil other side had done what my media source and politician said they should! It’s tricky - I also have a problem waiting months for a slow inefficient governm…

"You know this is already being politicized" "I also have a problem waiting months for a slow inefficient government agency to figure out how to cover their collective asses"

Guilty.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#879

Post by kevingadd »

Animats wrote: post #546
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Would customers be willing to pay 20% more for electric power to prevent a once a decade event?

We always get told that will result in massive price increases for the customer, even though in practice it's not always true. For example, we're told raising the minimum wage above where it's been for decades will make everything cost absurd amounts, even though there are many cities in the US with a $15/hr minimum wage and prices there aren't much higher than the ones with minimum wages in the $8/hr range.

It certainly could raise your electrical costs by 20% for weatherization, but there's nothing stopping the utility from raising your costs for any other reason. If weatherization doesn't completely eat into their profit margins, they don't HAVE to raise prices at all. The government could also fund it as a one-time expense.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#880

Post by trentnix »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #844
tacon wrote: post #798

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the Texas Legislature is in its once every two year session right now, and four million Texans are pissed off, it will be fun to see if new laws result this cycle.

Once every two years FFS this makes the Handforth Parish Council look Good.

It’s not a bug. It’s the best feature.
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