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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#801

Post by billh »

sjg007 wrote: post #568
nrmitchi wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just a result of certain design/engineering choices I think this is the point. Things are engineered for the environment which they are expected to operate, and to be optimized for those environments[0]. I would not expect a wind turbine that operates (and is designed to operate) in Antartica to not fail (potentially catestrophically) when operating in 100 degree Texas heat, [0] One could (and should) argue that th…

Cars operate across a spectrum of climates... no reason your power plant should not.

A car is engineered to operated in multiple climates through the use of specific fluids designed for the operating temperatures of the climate they are used in.

Further, power plants operate on error margins significantly more narrow than your average consumer automobile. The temperatures, pressures and mechanical stresses are orders of magnitude higher.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#802

Post by bjoli »

com2kid wrote: post #230
lurquer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you people for real? What did people with children, elderly, and pets do 150 years ago? If your house is 25f, put on a couple sweaters and a coat and have a beer. It’s not the end of the world. As far as the kids go, they’re outside building snowforts. In short, you make do. It astounds me that the typical HN poster can whip up a C++ compiler, pontificate about solutions to every social-ill, purport to speak inte…

> If your house is 25f, put on a couple sweaters and a coat and have a beer. It’s not the end of the world. Houses were designed very differently 150 years ago. Lower roofs, fewer windows, huge thick drapes or tapestries on the walls, animal skins or carpets on the floors. 9 ft windows (double pane or not) on all walls is going to leak out a lot of heat. Most importantly, fireplaces. Houses had fireplaces, and rooms…

We had a heater outage recently, with temperatures at about -20c. More than half the house was heated by our fireplace. It churns out something like 7kw when used properly, which is more than enough for that part of the house.

The other part was fine with one 2kw heater for the night. The whole thing was pretty scary. I'll make sure our next house has 2 fireplaces. One m3 of firewood will keep you going for a couple of days, and more importantly: your pipes won't crack.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#803

Post by bjoli »

Gwypaas wrote: post #267
com2kid wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If your house is 25f, put on a couple sweaters and a coat and have a beer. It’s not the end of the world. Houses were designed very differently 150 years ago. Lower roofs, fewer windows, huge thick drapes or tapestries on the walls, animal skins or carpets on the floors. 9 ft windows (double pane or not) on all walls is going to leak out a lot of heat. Most importantly, fireplaces. Houses had fireplaces, and rooms…

Nope, simply bad housing standards leading to no isolation. Passive houses work in the Scandinavia. This is coming from a Swede who lived for a while in Texan suburbia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive_house

Just better building standards will get you a long way. I live in a house with rather poor energy rating by Swedish standards (E on an A to F scale), yet with 4 people and some sunshine we keep 75m2 (half the house) heated to 20c with -5c outside.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#805

Post by jeffrallen »

doggodaddo78 wrote: post #624

In an apartment in Austin 78702. 47 F / 8 C inside, 22 / -6 outside. Power out for 2 days now, while west across I-35 has always had power. There's some baloney they're feeding us about "complicated critical loads" while huge swats of hotels and office buildings have power (I can see from north to south since my unit overhangs the frontage and has windows all over, and elevated enough to see over I-35). My fridge foo…

Bon voyage. Stay safe.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#806

Post by Gibbon1 »

qbasic_forever wrote: post #454
pault wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in Austin, without power for almost 48 hours now. There’s ice in my roommate’s bedroom. It’s my birthday tomorrow, and I’m hearing that we won’t have power until Thursday at the earliest. I’ve gone beyond furious to just horribly depressed.

Good luck, and here's some advice from a midwesterner that has dealt with cold, ice, and snow forever. If it's cold enough to start freezing things inside then make sure you have some water flowing in your pipes. Keep your kitchen sink running on a low (very tiny) dribble. Maybe even keep a shower/bathrub running at a very low rate too. You do NOT want to be dealing with frozen, broken flooding pipes on top of no pow…

There is what people that have vacation homes do in the winter, shut off the water and drain the water heater and pipes.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#807

Post by DoingIsLearning »

paraselene_ wrote: post #780
theshrike79 wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well. American fireplaces in general are a joke. You are just spending way too much energy and not really storing it anywhere except the air around it. They are built to look good, not to actually heat anything properly. Check any Nord…

Or you know, instead of having a whole fireplace, just get a kerosene heater? Enough to heat a whole room in case of power&gas outages, last long enough through the night on one fill, and kerosene can be had at a gas station.

I am not sure why you got downvoted, this is a good backup strategy.

I have natural gas heating and a combi smart boiler which runs on electricity. Even if I still have the gas link operational, if my power goes down then my heating is dead.

This news of Texas actually reminded, that I should have some sort of emergency winter heating backup, and a boat or camping kerosene heater is a actually a pretty solid idea for emergencies.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#808

Post by C19is20 »

Jcampuzano2 wrote: post #286
svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Houston right now, haven't had power, nor water since yesterday. My room is sitting at 20ish degrees and has been all day. I've quite literally been snug under a load of blankets with my wife all day just to stay warm. My office back in Dallas which is not normally open offered to let people stay the night since they happen to be on the same grid as a hospital and I seriously considered trying to make it there today

20 degrees? Laughs in European. Until "Oh, °f for 'freedom degrees'" realised.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#809

Post by ScottBurson »

paraselene_ wrote: post #780
theshrike79 wrote: post #766

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well. American fireplaces in general are a joke. You are just spending way too much energy and not really storing it anywhere except the air around it. They are built to look good, not to actually heat anything properly. Check any Nord…

Or you know, instead of having a whole fireplace, just get a kerosene heater? Enough to heat a whole room in case of power&gas outages, last long enough through the night on one fill, and kerosene can be had at a gas station.

But used indoors, it consumes oxygen, and can produce carbon monoxide. Leaving it on while you sleep is dangerous.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#810

Post by lmilcin »

gregw2 wrote: post #213
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

I have seen some fireplaces in US (I am from Poland) and outside of northern states they are all decorative pieces not designed to heat the home.

A good fireplace is completely closed (yes! no fire visible!) and is built to recover and store as much heat as possible.

* the fireplace must be enclosed completely so that it is possible to regulate amount of air going inside and especially to close it completely and SAFELY when you go to sleep. You need to close it so that it does not suck air out of your house. The fireplace stores heat but it does not make any sense if, once it burns out, the air takes all that stored heat out.

* the hot gasses go through a complicated tunnel (not directly into chimney) to heat up a large amount of bricks made from material that has high energy capacity. That's why here in Europe we don't tell silly stories about Santa coming through the chimney, because that would be totally ridiculous. He could just as well be coming through water pipes, it is just as accessible.

* the fireplace is built on a steel bed so that you can easily take out the ash WHILE it is burning. Also, it supplies the fire from beneath which makes for much better heating.

* traditionally, if you made effort to keep fire on throughout the day, you want to make as much use of it as possible. That's why you will see these frequently performing multiple functions: separate space for oven, large top to be able to heat multitude of things, maybe even place to sleep (that especially in really cold climate in Russia, in Poland much less popular).

Here are pictures of traditional fireplaces you could expect to heat well:

https://images.app.goo.gl/Ka9uiuNTU3LxMHqa6

https://images.app.goo.gl/rWrvoqGxzcJHC5P77

The first one is something you would expect heating the kitchen and the main/dining room and provide most of the heating for the house throughout the day.

The second one is something to put in individual rooms that are too far from the kitchen. It is easy to light it up and it heats extremely quickly but also stores absolutely no heat.

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