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How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

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Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#261

Post by djrobstep »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #254
djrobstep wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you're just confused on a basic level about how property works - property is coercion. It is literally the initiation of coercive violence on people who enter certain areas or touch certain objects (or threats thereof). > ...for you to dictate ... that would be a hierarchy with you at the top ... your proposed authoritarian restructuring of society ... Quit trying to dictate the world to the rest of us Once…

> It seems you're just confused on a basic level about how property works - property is coercion. No, property is a social construct that humans use to denote who has exclusive rights over the disposition of a thing. > It is literally the initiation of coercive violence on people who enter certain areas or touch certain objects (or threats thereof). No, property is literally a social construct that humans use to deno…

> No, property is literally a social construct that humans use to denote who has exclusive rights over the disposition of a thing. Coercion comes afterwards, when people seek to enforce this norm on people who dispute it.

Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it."

You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_even_wrong

You're wasting both your and my time here if you cannot accept basic, obvious realities like the fact that property requires enforcement.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#262

Post by DelightOne »

ah69 wrote: post #245
pdimitar wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in the context of my life experience I will disagree somewhat. I have this way of intuiting when I have made the most out of a situation or an interaction (especially when it comes to paid work) and time and again, without fail, I have noticed that due to emotional immaturity I have stayed well after the point at which I stopped learning and thriving and started getting poisoned by various bad (new) conditio…

Sure, but just because you went through periods of getting “poisoned“, why does that mean you stayed too long? Everyone goes through trials and tribulations. You’re making an error by assuming that leaving before the poisoning means you left on time. You always leave on time. The poisoning is part of the bigger plan of life. There’s never a need for regret, for everything happens exactly the way it’s supposed to.

If only somebody would have told him that leaving once you learnt everything you could is a nice idea. But we don't seem to get such lessons, but rather have to learn them ourselves, right?

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#263

Post by brigandish »

adamnemecek wrote: post #9

The US doesn’t care about productivity but more about maintaining some sort of class system. It took me a while to realize this. Also a surprising number of people in the US believe that poverty is a moral failure of some sort. I never actually understood this.

> Also a surprising number of people in the US believe that poverty is a moral failure of some sort. I never actually understood this.

A lot of what people take as "morals" is actually good economic sense wrapped up within a moral code, and even those who advocate it in that form can still sniff out the good sense from it.

Strip away the morality (as we should) and the "good" behaviour is supported strongly by research, as this[1], from the left leaning Brookings Institute, shows:

> poor children are more likely to make bad decisions that lead them to drop out of school, become teen parents, join gangs and break the law.

> Let politicians, schoolteachers and administrators, community leaders, ministers and parents drill into children the message that in a free society, they enter adulthood with three major responsibilities: at least finish high school, get a full-time job and wait until age 21 to get married and have children.

> Our research shows that of American adults who followed these three simple rules, only about 2 percent are in poverty and nearly 75 percent have joined the middle class

By cutting out those bits from the whole piece it makes it sound overly harsh but still, let's not throw out the baby from the conservative's bathwater.

[1] https://www.brookings.edu/opinions/three-simple-rules-poor-t...

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#264

Post by chordalkeyboard »

djrobstep wrote: post #261
chordalkeyboard wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems you're just confused on a basic level about how property works - property is coercion. No, property is a social construct that humans use to denote who has exclusive rights over the disposition of a thing. > It is literally the initiation of coercive violence on people who enter certain areas or touch certain objects (or threats thereof). No, property is literally a social construct that humans use to deno…

> No, property is literally a social construct that humans use to denote who has exclusive rights over the disposition of a thing. Coercion comes afterwards, when people seek to enforce this norm on people who dispute it. Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it." You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong". https://en.wikipedia.o…

> Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it."

You: “water is hot because boiling it requires heating it up” Me: “there is water at many temperatures and not all of it is boiling”

> You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong".

I’m sorry you think its pedantry to examine the literal facts of the issue under discussion. However there is a big difference between the idea of property and the means one chooses to enforce property norms on people who do not subscribe to them, and if you don’t see this (or fail to comprehend the significance) then I can understand why you’re confused.

> You're wasting both your and my time here if you cannot accept basic, obvious realities like the fact that property requires enforcement.

You’re wasting both your and my time here if you’re unable to question things you have taken for granted. If it’s so basic and obvious then demonstrate it, rather than arguing by assertion.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#265

Post by djrobstep »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #264
djrobstep wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, property is literally a social construct that humans use to denote who has exclusive rights over the disposition of a thing. Coercion comes afterwards, when people seek to enforce this norm on people who dispute it. Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it." You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong". https://en.wikipedia.o…

> Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it." You: “water is hot because boiling it requires heating it up” Me: “there is water at many temperatures and not all of it is boiling” > You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong". I’m sorry you think its pedantry to examine the literal facts of the issue under discussion. However there…

Name a property right that meaningfully exists absent enforcement or threats thereof.

Give a single concrete example.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#266

Post by chordalkeyboard »

djrobstep wrote: post #265
chordalkeyboard wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Me: "Water is wet" You: "No, water is a type of matter. Wetness comes afterwards, when people touch it." You: “water is hot because boiling it requires heating it up” Me: “there is water at many temperatures and not all of it is boiling” > You are being so pedantic and incoherent that you're "not even wrong". I’m sorry you think its pedantry to examine the literal facts of the issue under discussion. However there…

Name a property right that meaningfully exists absent enforcement or threats thereof. Give a single concrete example.

Name a water molecule that can’t be boiled. Give me a single example.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#267

Post by scollet »

marcodiego wrote: post #2

Not being able to focus on what you're doing is enough to decrease productivity. Even for non-intelectual jobs. Other mechanisms can be light depression, impossibility to rest when not working or inability to improve qualification.

I learned CS on an empty stomach. The second year I was on 3 winning hackathon teams with exceptional code output on novel ideas. I can only attribute those moments of success to free food (and plenty of energy drinks).

Edit: +hackathon ...I haven't had breakfast yet.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#268

Post by foogazi »

Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #93
foogazi wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shit happens, why are you still there?

When you are working for a good company that values you, and embedded in a good team that also values you, there is a bonding that occurs that goes deeper than your average commercial exchange. If you have never been in this position, you may not understand the emotional difficulties involved in watching such a place slowly burn to the ground. Old timers usually still feel loyalty to those of their coworkers who are…

> If you have never been in this position, you may not understand the emotional difficulties involved in watching such a place slowly burn to the ground.

I have been in that position before - that’s why I’m asking

I stayed 11 years at my previous job because it was fun and we were shielded us from a lot BS.

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