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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#361

Post by teclordphrack2 »

txlpo78 wrote: post #209
aardvarkr wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FYI the Texas grid runs on a different frequency than the other two grids and as a result incurs MASSIVE efficiency penalties for that hubris. If I recall correctly it has to be converted from AC to DC then back to Texas’ AC.

Yes, that’s correct. Texas has 5 ties to the western/eastern US interconnections as well as with the Mexico grid. But none of that matters right now because those grids don’t have excess capacity to send to Texas anyway.

Texas grid sucks. Deal with it. Everyone keeps pointing out its failings and you keep trying to defend it. Quit putting your head in the sand snowflake.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#362

Post by alyandon »

svnpenn wrote: post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Yeah, "rolling outages" is a joke. I went 19 hours without power in GP&L territory yesterday and portions of my house were down below 40F when I went to bed around 9 PM last night. They finally decided to restore power in my neighborhood at 4 AM this morning.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#363

Post by Retric »

tharkun__ wrote: post #184
Retric wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can isolate yourself from cascading blackouts while still being able to share power. This is why they may cross several states, but never hit nationwide.

Yes and no :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northeast_blackout_of_2003#Seq... I really like this minute by minute play. > Estimated total affected people 55,000,000 Now this is not supposed to be a "NA vs. Europe" thing. So here we go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_European_blackout#Timelin... Funny how this was actually caused by a planned shutdown of a specific line to let a ship pass. Something that had been…

Or just Yes.

That US blackout was completely isolated to the Northeast Power Coordinating Council (NPCC), all other regional grids where unaffected. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmiss.... “The regions are not usually directly connected or synchronized to each other, but there are some HVDC interconnections.”

It’s just a question of cost. Regional grids could have more resiliency internally, but large blackouts are rare enough it’s not considered worth it.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#364

Post by monadic3 »

evan_ wrote: post #258
monadic3 wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas heaters still require electricity for basic management. I'd imagine heaters have batteries for specifically this case. If they don't, it's frankly a miracle if we don't lose anyone, and someone needs to get prosecuted.

gas furnaces do not have batteries.

That's a failing of gas furnaces. I don't know why you'd design a system without them except to breed dependency.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#365

Post by JonathonW »

redisman wrote: post #343
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one reason why a gas fireplace is a great thing - even without electricity, you can at least heat half a room.

My gas fireplace still requires electricity to run. I know I can start it with a match if needed (and it has a pilot of course) but I'm not 100% sure if I can manually override the gas valve to open. It opens when I flip an electric switch.

Does it? Mine opens when I flip an electric switch, but it's self-powered via a thermopile on the pilot-- no AC connection whatsoever.

Some other models (from the same manufacturer as mine) don't have a standing pilot, but either use a battery as the primary ignition source, or use AC power but take batteries as a backup.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#366

Post by jandrese »

dwohnitmok wrote: post #280
jcims wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the issue is that the draw of the heated air up through the flue creates a negative pressure inside the home, which gets made up through all the little nooks and crannies around the house. As a result, the room where the fireplace is will be warmer but the rest the house is typically colder.

Oh interesting. So you're saying it actually accelerates net heat loss to the environment?

It does, and it creates a floor on the outside temperature where the heat from the stove is overcome by the losses of sucking in the cold air. This depends on the design of the stove. Some wood stoves pull down the firebox air from the outside to avoid this problem, but it is fairly unusual. There is a second heat exchanger with its own fan that circulates the inside air. The problem with this is that you still lose a lot of heat up the chimney.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#367

Post by AuthorizedCust »

JonathonW wrote: post #278
dwohnitmok wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience with fireplaces is that the house winds up net-colder Why is that? EDIT: Oh are you saying that the rate of heating provided by the fire is less than the overall rate of heat leaving the entire house?

Fireplaces typically draw air from the house to sustain the fire, then up the chimney or out a vent. That creates negative pressure, which draws cold, unconditioned air from outside into the house from wherever air can leak in. How this works out in terms of net heat gained/lost will depend on the fireplace design, but, from what I hear, it's not uncommon for this to be a net-loss type of situation.

Not if they are in the attic. Also, my house has a subfloor. When the furnace and water heater were inside the part of the house you live in, they both had vents on the floor, so air used for combustion came from outside.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#368

Post by lordgroff »

ulisesrmzroche wrote: post #291
lurquer wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you people for real? What did people with children, elderly, and pets do 150 years ago? If your house is 25f, put on a couple sweaters and a coat and have a beer. It’s not the end of the world. As far as the kids go, they’re outside building snowforts. In short, you make do. It astounds me that the typical HN poster can whip up a C++ compiler, pontificate about solutions to every social-ill, purport to speak inte…

We’re not ready for this kind of weather here in Texas. I’d you’re so smart you should know people 150 years ago lived differently and built their houses differently Are you without power? I don’t think so. Real easy to talk shit when you’re warm and comfortable. It’s not like you built any infrastructure or built your house, so don’t take credit for keeping it warm What’s more is that it’s not only hackers and engin…

Yeah, living here in Canada, when I read the temperatures I had to rub my eyes in disbelief. Temperatures of -30,-40C are by no means unheard of here but we know it will come every winter. I can't imagine a prolonged, unprepared for infrastructure failure, with houses getting down to minus territory indoors. Sounds terrible.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#369

Post by benlivengood »

teachrdan wrote: post #342
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had my wood fireplace going for the first time this weekend when the daytime temperatures were around -12F. It can easily raise the temperature of my living room, dining room & kitchen (one open space) to 80+ but that's with electricity to power the circulation fan. How are you keeping the whole house warm if you can't circulate the air? I'm genuinely curious.

There's some old school technology to solve that problem. For example, I stayed in a friend's ancient family home in Maine that simply had a bedroom over the living room wood stove, and an open vent between the two floors to let the heat through. There are also non-electric fans to help distribute heat from a wood stove. https://www.amazon.com/PYBBO-Improved-Fireplace-Magnetic-The...

To clarify, that fan is electric and powered by a peltier (thermoelectric effect) device using heat from the stove.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#370

Post by dodobirdlord »

epistasis wrote: post #51
terse_malvolio wrote: post #33

This is only a problem because we haven't figured out a good way to store electrical energy.

We have great ways of storing electricity, it's just that they're only getting built right now, and they're getting cheaper so fast that waiting a few years will get you a 30%+ discount off the price. There are currently 17GW of batteries in the ERCOT interconnection queue for the coming years, for a grid that's only ~80GW. The ERCOT of 2025 will be massively different from the ERCOT of 2021, and it's going to mean a…

GW is a unit of power, it’s not a unit that energy storage capacity can be measured in.
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