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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

houstonchronicle.com

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Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#231

Post by jshevek »

_jal wrote: post #206
majormajor wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I wouldn't pay any more money to avoid this" is a remarkable low cost tolerance. I would love to know just how much we'd be talking about per-customer. Ten cents over ten years? A dollar over ten years? Twenty dollars? More? Without knowing that "I wouldn't pay any more" seems foolhardy.

Well, one thing you know is that poster knows no one reliant on powered medical devices.

> Well, one thing you know is that poster knows no one reliant on powered medical devices.

No, this is simply a baseless assumption made by you, with an effect similar to poisoning the well. I know people on medical devices, and one day of power loss per 30 years is absolutely acceptable to them, give that they arranged to have backup power.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#232

Post by tw04 »

gregw2 wrote: post #213
gregw2 wrote: post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Anecdote: All 7 developers in my Houston team (semi-geographically scattered in the city) lost power; half for >24 hrs (it's 10-25 degrees F here for the last 2-3 days). Most lost water for some stretch of time and some still don't have it. I don't think any completely lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work t…

>I don't think any lost heat (most have gas) but at least one person found their gas fireplace they were hoping would heat them up when out of power didn't really work that well.

I'm curious how they didn't lose heat. Any furnace built in the last 30 years, even gas, has an electronic control board in order to ensure it doesn't accidentally turn on the gas without a functioning pilot light and/or heating element (which would blow up your house).

No electricity = no heat, regardless of natural gas supply.

I've got about a dozen coworkers in Texas, they've all been without power (which means no heat) for two days now. The power comes on long enough to at least warm their houses up to 50ish degrees before dropping back out so they're not completely screwed but I know they're scared.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#233

Post by gruez »

toast0 wrote: post #176
gruez wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it hasn't been deregulated enough? From the article >Wholesale electricity sold are near the $9,000-per-megawatt hour maximum in power markets across the state Monday as the system struggled to meet demand, according to ERCOT. Why bother spending millions on preparing for a once in a century event when your upside is capped? This is further compounded by the wholesale rates not being passed to consumers, whi…

> Why bother spending millions on preparing for a once in a century event when your upside is capped? This is further compounded by the wholesale rates not being passed to consumers, which removes a lot of backpressure from the system. If turning on the heater costs $100/hr to run you're going to find alternatives (eg. co-habiting with your inlaws). If it's a once in a century (or once every 10 year) event, consumers…

>They're going to refuse to pay the bill.

...and subsequently get their electricity cut off in a few months for non-payment? Besides, it isn't too hard to impose a cap on the rate you pay and requiring a credit card to be on file if you want to lift the limit. In other words, by default the maximum rate you'll pay is $2/kWH, but if you have a credit card on file you can put in whatever rate you want. If the wholesale price goes above the maxmimum rate you can pay your electricity gets cut off. If the utility thinks the rate is too high and you aren't going to pay, they'll pre-authorize your card for the amount. At that point they can let the credit card company/banks worry about chasing after the customers.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#234

Post by worik »

dv_dt wrote: post #222
worik wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a valid point of view. It may be true in a lot of places that we should step back from 100% coverage as the cost is just too high, and it is better (cheaper) to put the resilience in housholds than in utilities. But your anecdote is just that - a anecdote. We need to carefully weigh those options. Elected politicians have a bad reputation for making these trade offs sensibly. I have heard it said (by a fictiona…

Really it means that many many people end up paying for safety measures individually - if they can afford them. The total social cost is likely higher than building adequate infrastructure in centralized places.

Yes. It depends on whether individual house holds pay their own way or if the costs are shared.

I guess it would depend a lot of the local political culture.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#235

Post by [deleted] »

enraged_camel wrote: post #192
da_big_ghey wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had power out for over a day and am fine. I would not pay any more money to avoid this once every thirty years, or even once a decade, for a few days. Mostly because paying the cost to prepare for one of these is reasonable, but preparing for all of them would be very expensive and I will trade cheap power for the occasional inconvenience.

Your perspective is very self-centered. People die when power goes out for extended periods like this. Especially if the weather is exceptionally hot or cold.

[deleted]

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#236

Post by extrapickles »

barbacoa wrote: post #135
ckemere wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Home solar saving the day for my neighbors in Houston today, actually.

Electrical codes require grid-tie solar inverters to shut off if the utility power fails.

You only have to shut off if you don't have the ability to disconnect yourself from the grid. Automatic switches are fairly expensive ($500-2k), so unless you also have battery storage, you generally opt out to save money.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#237

Post by UncleOxidant »

svnpenn wrote: post #105
UncleOxidant wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that's 5C and not 5F.

Why would it be celcius? I made it very clear that I'm in Dallas, and we don't use Celcius. That's not a knock against Celcius, frankly it's just a knock on you for the dumb comment.

You could be a Canadian living in TX. You could be an American who prefers the metric system. And OMG I had no idea it had gotten that cold down there, please accept my condolences.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#238

Post by creato »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #215
ipv6ipv4 wrote: post #127

A social political decline is what happened and continues to happen. When California encountered power issues, it was easier for Texas politicians (and many of their followers) to espouse malicious soundbites about Commifornia than to empathize, offer support and self reflect on what lessons can be learned and applied locally. Now that Texas is reaping its own fruits of decades of anti-"other side" politics and polit…

What can we, private citizens with entrepreneurial skill and talent, do to combat this partisan schadenfreude?

Stop giving cover to politicians that think government always sucks and private business is always better?

I think that's true most of the time, but not when it comes to things like this. Preparing for a once in decades event is something private business has a hard time doing without getting eaten by more aggressive competitors. The only way to get this kind of preparedness is to have it be part of the level playing field (i.e. regulation/government).

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#239

Post by ed25519FUUU »

_jal wrote: post #206
majormajor wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I wouldn't pay any more money to avoid this" is a remarkable low cost tolerance. I would love to know just how much we'd be talking about per-customer. Ten cents over ten years? A dollar over ten years? Twenty dollars? More? Without knowing that "I wouldn't pay any more" seems foolhardy.

Well, one thing you know is that poster knows no one reliant on powered medical devices.

California has rolling blackouts every summer (and winter) with power that cost about 3x more than Texas. Rolling blackouts also affect hospitals. I think OPs sentiment is that overall Texas is a better system. Compared to CA I agree.

Now that doesn’t mean that it can’t or shouldn’t be improved, but spending 3x more and looking more like California is a huge net loss.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#240

Post by UncleOxidant »

bjacobt wrote: post #100
UncleOxidant wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully that's 5C and not 5F.

We were at 0 F today morning north of Dallas.

Wow, I had no idea it had gotten _that_ cold down there. I've never seen it that cold here in the PNW - west of the Cascades, anyway.
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