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Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

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Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#231

Post by bogomipz »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #189
azinman2 wrote: post #120

So it sounds like lemming group think. It seems like someone one should hold “just in case,” but no real valid reason to do so yet (that I’ve heard). We know transactions are slow and expensive, so it’s not a good replacement for ordinary commerce. It can be used to transfer across borders, but there often is asymmetry in capital movement that makes this difficult in the places you need it most (poor countries with r…

The forefront of the Bitcoin frenzy isn't even on the blockchain, it's at the exchanges. Hardcore tech people and those who don't (or can't) trust institutions with their Bitcoin will pay the transaction fees to get their money out of exchanges and into their own wallet. The average retail investor, however, doesn't want to be their own bank. They just want in on the price action, while letting the exchange manage th…

>"Does anyone really think the person buying crypto $100 at a time in their Robinhood account wants to pay $18 (current average transaction fee) every time they want to move that BTC into their wallet?"

I'm curious is this the transaction per $100 or is $18 a flat fee regardless of transfer amount?

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#232

Post by PragmaticPulp »

Aunche wrote: post #219

There are 1.2 trillion US Dollars in circulation right now. Meanwhile, the "market cap" of BTC is more than $900 billion, yet it's still entirely a vehicle for speculation.

Total wealth of the United States is on the order of $100 Trillion USD.

Cash gets way too much emphasis in Bitcoin discussions, while ignoring the fact that investors aren't investing in cash anyway.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#233

Post by trident5000 »

rustybelt wrote: post #224
trident5000 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cant spend it well? Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Circle are all supporting it.

Mastercard announced that they will be supporting "crypto" not necessarily bitcoin. Bitcoin itself doesn't have the capacity to support widespread adoption as a medium of exchange.

Mastercard is without a doubt supporting Bitcoin.

I think I need to break down how this works. Bitcoin L1 chain is a settlement layer where transactions are pooled per tx (its not 10 tx per second or whatever people think it is). Regardless, its L2 that processes small frequent transactions. That would be providers like Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Circle, etc. They process the transactions and keep the account, only infrequently is it settled to the actual blockchain ledger. Then you get into the lighting network. Bitcoin can absolutely scale without issue.

nacs: because common sense

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#235

Post by ori_b »

trident5000 wrote: post #191
DavidSJ wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a good store of value (aside from its extreme volatility), but the GP comment would be correct if you substitute "medium of exchange" for "store of value".

Gold is short term volatile as well. Long term average is all that matters to be an effective value store. Its like a more volatile gold right now through price discovery.

Gold is also a poor place to put your money. The long term average is both volatile and underperforms most indexes.

https://www.macrotrends.net/1333/historical-gold-prices-100-...

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#236

Post by vultour »

onepointsixC wrote: post #39
1996 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 12 years, just bubbles? First it was over 1 cent, then over $1, over $1000, now over $50k.... when will you consider the possibility you may have been wrong? At $100k? At $1M? (which most models indicate as a plausible target price in 10 years) Let me give you my favorite quote, pulled from another HNer comment: "I enjoy reading comments about Bitcoin here because even without any venture backing, it achieved a b…

All the Y Combinator companies combined have created value. What has Bitcoin created? I struggle to come up with an answer which isn't overwhelmingly just a way to fund illicit activities, for which sure there's always been a market, but it's a far cry of it's origins. Who actually uses bitcoin for transactions today other than extortionists hackers and drug dealers? Everyone who owns is just planning to HODL and hop…

Created? Oh it's still creating - pollution.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#237

Post by PragmaticPulp »

marvin wrote: post #105
onepointsixC wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the Y Combinator companies combined have created value. What has Bitcoin created? I struggle to come up with an answer which isn't overwhelmingly just a way to fund illicit activities, for which sure there's always been a market, but it's a far cry of it's origins. Who actually uses bitcoin for transactions today other than extortionists hackers and drug dealers? Everyone who owns is just planning to HODL and hop…

Bitcoin has pioneered a new asset class that can be transferred over the Internet and is not dependent on a central authority. I don't own any cryptocurrency and can't put a dollar valuation on such an achievement, but it's certainly not an everyday thing.

Bitcoin didn't create that. Whoever was behind Satoshi Nakamoto created that.

And then it was duplicated across 1000s of other coins. The only advantage Bitcoin has in 2021 is that it was the first and most famous.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#238

Post by llamataboot »

trident5000 wrote: post #191
DavidSJ wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be a good store of value (aside from its extreme volatility), but the GP comment would be correct if you substitute "medium of exchange" for "store of value".

Gold is short term volatile as well. Long term average is all that matters to be an effective value store. Its like a more volatile gold right now through price discovery.

Gold has stored value for a little bit longer than bitcoin, and the volatility isn't really even within orders of the same magnitude.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#239

Post by trident5000 »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #225
trident5000 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cant spend it well? Visa, Mastercard, Paypal, Circle are all supporting it.

Yes, but who's actually paying the $18 transaction fees to move some Bitcoin to Visa so they can spend Bitcoin instead of cash and incur a new taxable sale with every swipe of the credit card? Has anyone confirmed that Mastercard is even going to support Bitcoin? Previous articles suggested it was stablecoins only. In no way is spending Bitcoin as easy as spending regular old cash.

Because every transaction on layer 2 is not settled on the blockchain, its simply their cheap and fast ledger keeping track of frequent transactions. Rarely is there settlement.

Many dont understand Bitcoin was designed this way on purpose. L1 is for infrequent important transaction settlement. If it wasnt the chain would grow to a point where it could not be decentralized because the chain would be too big for hard drives and individuals to run nodes. It would naturally expand faster than memory advancement and centralize.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#240

Post by coinward »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #220
RestlessMind wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is rather a promise of an "eventual stability". Thinking through that lens, I think USD (and other Fiat currencies) are the ones exhibiting instability.

There is no objective measure by which Bitcoin is more stable than USD. The idea that USD is becoming worthless due to recent monetary policy, however ill-advised, is greatly exaggerated. The idea that Bitcoin is the only way to protect oneself against inflation is also greatly exaggerated. Investors have been buying assets and investments for a long time before Bitcoin was invented to avoid inflation. Bitcoin didn't…

unexpected inflation is just so unexpected. its not that Bitcoin is the only option, its just the best option which is why its emerging as money
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