Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

houstonchronicle.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 1001 posts

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#31

Post by maxerickson »

sokoloff wrote: post #17
masklinn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe having more nuclear power plants instead of wind would have helped? No. Most of the missing production was not wind, and several nukes went out (unclear whether that was because the grid was dying though). What would have helped was proper standards (avoiding emergency being much of the reason why Texas still has its own grid) and properly winterising. The wind thing is just a bullshit excuse, the vast majori…

What is "proper winterizing" for a state where the 99th percentile design temperature is mostly 25-30ºF? Properly sized heating systems should run 24 hours a day when the temps are well below the design temp. If almost all of those systems are electric (because they are simple and cheap to install and don't get a ton of use), you get a lot of constant demand for electricity. Smart load-shedding (to dump large 240VAC…

The power infrastructure is also failing from the cold. Some big fraction of that could probably be prevented for cheap.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#32

Post by slenk »

brohoolio wrote: post #15

Did the utility companies ask for voluntary reduction in power consumption ahead of time? We had a situation here where extreme weather and a natural gas pumping station that exploded caused real problems in our natural gas supply. The utility asked everyone to lower their consumption by turning their heat down to 65. Luckily, that was the extent of the rationing.

My companies office volunteered to power off so we got to all work from our homes.

That was only good for those of us still with power, though.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#34

Post by shortandsweet »

falcolas wrote: post #7
daenney wrote: post #2

Choice quote from the article: “The ERCOT grid has collapsed in exactly the same manner as the old Soviet Union,” said Hirs. “It limped along on underinvestment and neglect until it finally broke under predictable circumstances.”

Which confuses me, as it follows a statement about how energy has been deregulated. Of course, deregulation would also reduce some of the incentives for maintaining preparation for "100 year winter" storms. Much like how hospitals reduced the number of beds based on their average case loads, not the uncommon-but-not-unheard-of peaks.

Can't really say it's a regulation vs deregulation issue. I've worked for both and it's incredibly difficult to get anyone to do anything other than a broke fix. Once something breaks or someone dies, that's when it's taken seriously. I wish I had a problem statement and a solution to go with it.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#35

Post by windthrown »

masklinn wrote: post #9
falcolas wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which confuses me, as it follows a statement about how energy has been deregulated. Of course, deregulation would also reduce some of the incentives for maintaining preparation for "100 year winter" storms. Much like how hospitals reduced the number of beds based on their average case loads, not the uncommon-but-not-unheard-of peaks.

> "100 year winter" storms It’s like the third time in 30 years.

"100 year" is shorthand for probability. In reality, these are storms that have a 1% chance of occurring in any given year.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#36

Post by ashtonkem »

ianai wrote: post #26
gambiting wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How exactly does it show that? From my understanding Texas has an awful(below 20%) percentage of renewable sources.

TFA says it’s grid is mostly natural gas and wind. There seems to be lots of misconceptions in this thread and not a lot of information. Nuclear would have been fine throughout this.

Apparently one of the nuclear turbines went offline because the turbine was exposed to the open air (for cooling during the summer) and some of the sensors triggered a shutoff of the turbine when they detected unexpected temperatures.

Another case where systems misbehave when they’re exposed to circumstances outside the expected range.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#37

Post by bsder »

the_duke wrote: post #14

This whole episode also reminds us how far we are from going 100% renewable. In winter all renewables are inhibited and at risk. Wind: frozen/disabled turbines. Water: low water levels, small hydro plants often have to shut down. Solar is obvious. I'm not a fan of nuclear - externalities that last thousands of years are horrible. But until fusion arrives (if ever), nuclear and gas sadly are the baseline providers we…

Renewable wasn't the issue. The renewables are outperforming what was expected. However, renewables are like 4% of the total energy generation. ERCOT lost about 40% of its total generation capacity.

Almost all of the ERCOT shortfall was loss of thermal generating capacity--mostly natural gas. The natural gas was shunted to heating because those contracts are fixed and higher priority (market failure). Also, some of the natural gas lines, wells, and pumping stations froze (planning failure).

ERCOT lost more than 35% of its natural gas generating capacity. This was everybody cutting corners and finally getting burned.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#38

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

gambiting wrote: post #19
the_duke wrote: post #14

This whole episode also reminds us how far we are from going 100% renewable. In winter all renewables are inhibited and at risk. Wind: frozen/disabled turbines. Water: low water levels, small hydro plants often have to shut down. Solar is obvious. I'm not a fan of nuclear - externalities that last thousands of years are horrible. But until fusion arrives (if ever), nuclear and gas sadly are the baseline providers we…

How exactly does it show that? From my understanding Texas has an awful(below 20%) percentage of renewable sources.

The US as a whole is about ~11% [1], and Texas is ~25% [2]. Considering Texas makes up a decent chunk of the total US energy consumption, it's a bit more lopsided than it seems.

Texas is pretty green, when it comes to energy.

[1] https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=92&t=4

[2] https://www.eia.gov/state/analysis.php?sid=TX

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#39

Post by roywiggins »

sokoloff wrote: post #17
masklinn wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe having more nuclear power plants instead of wind would have helped? No. Most of the missing production was not wind, and several nukes went out (unclear whether that was because the grid was dying though). What would have helped was proper standards (avoiding emergency being much of the reason why Texas still has its own grid) and properly winterising. The wind thing is just a bullshit excuse, the vast majori…

What is "proper winterizing" for a state where the 99th percentile design temperature is mostly 25-30ºF? Properly sized heating systems should run 24 hours a day when the temps are well below the design temp. If almost all of those systems are electric (because they are simple and cheap to install and don't get a ton of use), you get a lot of constant demand for electricity. Smart load-shedding (to dump large 240VAC…

Long-range interconnects probably would help, the rest of the US isn't having this problem, just Texas's mini-grid.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#40

Post by disgrunt »

kbar13 wrote: post #10

is this the wakeup call that texans need to acknowledge that climate change isn't a coastal elite type thing, and that it affects us all and requires investment from all of us? imo texas is in a great spot to capitalize on the shift to green tech. they have strong engineering talent, large investments from the energy sector. car manufacturers are already clamoring to be the next to go fully electric. get your leaders…

Weather isn't climate... or something..
Post reply on HN