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How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

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Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#21

Post by redis_mlc »

chrisseaton wrote: post #15
redis_mlc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments. But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

> If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months.

Of course I'm banned on HN - I'm not a leftist, right dang?

I stand by what I say, and won't appease moderators.

> But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen.

My point was that Britain missed out on most of the IT industry growth because of the OSA. Instead that success went first to Boston, then SV.

I do understand that all Britain has left is its past glory, which its citizens continually remind the US about, while we're busy doing.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#22

Post by chrisseaton »

redis_mlc wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments. But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

> If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. Of course I'm banned on HN - I'm not a leftist, right dang? I stand by what I say, and won't appease moderators. > But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. My point was that Britain missed out on most of the IT industry growth because of the OSA. Instead that success went first to Boston, then SV. I do understand that all Britain has…

> I do understand that all Britain has left is its past glory, which its citizens continually remind the US about, while we're busy doing.

Not sure why you needed to turn snide there after I took the time to vouch for your comment and reply to you in good faith.

You can be happy about making a success of current technology, without pretending what other people did before you never existed.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#23

Post by alangibson »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #2

The ENIAC was not the world's first computer. Konrad Zuse's Z1 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer) Even if you want it to be electrical, not mechanical, then Zuse's Z3 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

The Manchester Baby was the first stored program computer. IMHO that makes it the first computer and not just a giant digital calculator.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#24

Post by Animats »

The Smithsonian had a few panels. They had a working counter. At one time, they had a visitor control panel where you could push buttons and watch it count. But in time they had to power it off.

It's well documented. I once saw schematics. The counters really are decimal, with 10 tubes per digit, set up so that only one at a time is conducting. It's not even binary-coded decimal.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#25

Post by ncmncm »

twic wrote: post #12
eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #2

The ENIAC was not the world's first computer. Konrad Zuse's Z1 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer) Even if you want it to be electrical, not mechanical, then Zuse's Z3 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

AIUI, the Z3 has no conditional branches. Without those, it's not much like a computer as we understand it. Rather, i think the Z3 is an "automatic calculator" - it can carry out a fixed sequence of operations, but it can't do arbitrary computation. In that respect, it is like the Atanasoff–Berry computer and the Harvard Mark I. The prehistory of computing has a bunch of really interesting machines like this (and Col…

3 is not necessary. OSes and linkers are not necessary. We did without for many years.

The program should be in some kind of more-or-less addressable memory, to support conditional branching. That's all.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#26

Post by ncmncm »

M2Ys4U wrote: post #16
redis_mlc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

> Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. Fun fact: GCHQ still refuses to talk about some of the earliest computing work on Colossus and enigma decryption. I was quite surprised to hear this when I was on a tour of The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park[0]. I hope that if/when they do decide to declassify that information that they'll han…

GCHQ are embarrassed because they lost / destroyed it. "Refusing" is less embarrassing than "ooopsie!".

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#27

Post by jcranmer »

ff10 wrote: post #3

Obligatory comment that the Z3 was the world's first digital computer. Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline, but it turns out that the Z3 was indeed Turing complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

It's... complicated. The title of first digital computer can be argued to be ABC, Z3, Colossus, or ENIAC, and which one you give it to is going to be decided on the basis of how precisely you define "first digital computer." Given that there is also an element of nationalism to the decision (is the first computer German, British, or American?), it's not entirely unreasonable to suppose that the criteria is partially determined by the desire of whom to crown.

Personally, I don't think the fact that the Z3 and the Colossus were discovered to be Turing-complete long after they were last used should really qualify them for a title based on "first Turing-complete machine." The long time it took to establish Turing-completeness indicates that they weren't designed to be Turing-complete, and that they are is more a reflection of just how low a bar it is to be Turing-complete than the capabilities of the machines themselves. In other words, I would submit that the phrase "first Turing-complete machine" should really be understood as "first intentionally Turing-complete machine."

Another framework that makes sense to understand is the role that the computers had on later development of the field. ENIAC clearly has a massive influence, since it's the one that spawned more recognizable computers as its progeny. The influence of ABC on ENIAC only came out much later (and is still somewhat debated). Z3 had little impact on the field later because it was on the wrong side of WW2. Colossus I believe did influence the Manchester machines, but this link was not known at the time because of the secrecy around Colossus.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#28

Post by bmauchly »

Parts of the ENIAC are in at least six different museums around the world. For ENIAC’s 75th birthday (yesterday) I collected a short video from the curators of each. https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0IDvwajM_78t0VKt3tatNejX... The multiplier had a wild ride getting to the University of Michigan.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#29

Post by mellosouls »

redis_mlc wrote: post #21
chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments. But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

> If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. Of course I'm banned on HN - I'm not a leftist, right dang? I stand by what I say, and won't appease moderators. > But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. My point was that Britain missed out on most of the IT industry growth because of the OSA. Instead that success went first to Boston, then SV. I do understand that all Britain has…

Of course I'm banned on HN - I'm not a leftist, right dang?

Very unfair. As somebody who has regularly commented here against the excesses of the left, while sometimes the silent downvoting has often been telling as to the sympathies of some, the moderation has always been scrupulously fair.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#30

Post by bmauchly »

ENIAC was the first general-purpose electronic computer. You can argue about “first computer” for years, as people have, but the term computer is not well enough defined to have one answer. (And as if battered monster reached out from the grave, the ENIAC just slapped down the Manchester Baby. Recent research by Haigh, Crispen and Rope has revealed that the ENIAC, not the Baby, was the first computer to run a stored program.)
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