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How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

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Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#11

Post by usrusr »

ff10 wrote: post #3

Obligatory comment that the Z3 was the world's first digital computer. Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline, but it turns out that the Z3 was indeed Turing complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

Who knows, perhaps if the minds behind Paperclip had been a little more data-minded:

* today, Z3 might be considered "first real"

and

* today, we might be stuck writing code in a fossilized language lovingly called Plankalkül 58 by its inventors that had so much inertia back then that it stifled all further development in the 1960ies, with the result that all of our 2021 computing would be about as fresh as the 2021 B52.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#12

Post by twic »

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 wrote: post #2

The ENIAC was not the world's first computer. Konrad Zuse's Z1 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z1_(computer) Even if you want it to be electrical, not mechanical, then Zuse's Z3 was first: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

AIUI, the Z3 has no conditional branches. Without those, it's not much like a computer as we understand it. Rather, i think the Z3 is an "automatic calculator" - it can carry out a fixed sequence of operations, but it can't do arbitrary computation. In that respect, it is like the Atanasoff–Berry computer and the Harvard Mark I.

The prehistory of computing has a bunch of really interesting machines like this (and Colossus, and early ENIAC really) which are technical marvels, but miss at least one of the key things which make a computer really a computer.

People often focus on the electrical vs mechanical distinction, but that's a red herring. If you made a 386 out of Lego, it would still be a computer. Similarly, binary vs decimal is irrelevant.

To me, there are three key characteristics:

1. There is a program comprising a sequence of symbols which are interpreted by the machine (so not Colossus or early ENIAC, which were controlled by plugboards)

2. There are symbols for conditional branches, or some equivalent construct, and the language is Turing-complete, or some practical projection of it (so not the Z3, ABC, or ASCC)

3. The program is stored in a memory which can be modified by the program

Once you have those things, you can do anything. The first two points are the most important, but i think the third is also really significant: it is what allows things like operating systems and linkers to arise. If the first two are the definition of life, the third is the definition of multicellular life.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#13

Post by crispyambulance »

marcan_42 wrote: post #7

This is quite sad. It seems the person who was tasked with doing something with the panels they had quickly gave up on doing anything with them other than making them into a visual prop. It's not ENIAC any more, it's a bunch of DMX blinkenlights mounted on an ENIAC frame. If you're going to do that, what's the point of using the original hardware? That's just destroying it further. Making the whole machine work like…

I think it's really amazing to see old computers work. The Computer History Museum has managed to do that with some 50's and 60's era computers-- you can actually see them in action, teletype and everything.

But it's really just a curiosity to have the physical machine literally running. It's merely a nostaghic artifact. We have photos, stories, documentation, and historians writing books and articles. That's what matters-- not the blinky lights even if they're running 70 year old "code" on an emulator or miraculously preserved vintage electronics.

I think programming up an raspberry pi (or whatever) to run a mainframe emulator and hooking it up to old iron panels is something akin to building animatronic dinosaurs. It's great to do for some representative artifacts, but it can be overdone.

Keeping the IBM 1401 running at the computer history museum is fine too. The room even smells great, it's a spectacle for geeks. It's feasible for as long as some old-timers can keep replacing the components that age-out. But at some point it's going to be a better idea to unplug the thing, remove the leaky caps, and keep the dust off it.

It will be interesting what happens to VM's and Containers in the future. Are these things going to be preserved and displayed like a "brain-in-a-jar"? Will people in the future marvel at our convoluted code from 2020, our turgid (but quaint) frameworks. Will our API's be comparable to crazy victorian contraptions?

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#14

Post by redis_mlc »

chrisseaton wrote: post #6
ff10 wrote: post #3

Obligatory comment that the Z3 was the world's first digital computer. Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline, but it turns out that the Z3 was indeed Turing complete. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z3_(computer)

> Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline We all know what they mean - they mean it was American.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained.

And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#15

Post by chrisseaton »

redis_mlc wrote: post #14
chrisseaton wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline We all know what they mean - they mean it was American.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments.

But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#16

Post by M2Ys4U »

redis_mlc wrote: post #14
chrisseaton wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not sure what the "real" refers to in the headline We all know what they mean - they mean it was American.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

> Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained.

Fun fact: GCHQ still refuses to talk about some of the earliest computing work on Colossus and enigma decryption. I was quite surprised to hear this when I was on a tour of The National Museum of Computing at Bletchley Park[0].

I hope that if/when they do decide to declassify that information that they'll hand it over to TNMOC.

[0] https://www.tnmoc.org/ - It's well worth a visit so when they're open again post-COVID see if you can get down there.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#18

Post by hoseja »

chrisseaton wrote: post #15
redis_mlc wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, Britain decided to hide everything behind the Official Secrets Act, which workers proudly maintained. And the US didn't, and here we are today on HN from California.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments. But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

Didn't know HN has shadowbanning.

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#19

Post by chrisseaton »

hoseja wrote: post #18
chrisseaton wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you didn't know, you're been hell-banned for months. That's why so few people reply to your comments. But anyway, keeping something secret doesn't mean it didn't happen. And it's now public knowledge for anyone who cares to look outside the history of the US.

Didn't know HN has shadowbanning.

You have to have a certain level of karma to be able to see shadow-banned people. Otherwise... yeah not knowing about it is kind of the point, isn't it?

Re: How the World's First Computer Was Rescued from the Scrap Heap (2014)

#20

Post by aYsY4dDQ2NrcNzA »

marcan_42 wrote: post #7

This is quite sad. It seems the person who was tasked with doing something with the panels they had quickly gave up on doing anything with them other than making them into a visual prop. It's not ENIAC any more, it's a bunch of DMX blinkenlights mounted on an ENIAC frame. If you're going to do that, what's the point of using the original hardware? That's just destroying it further. Making the whole machine work like…

Is there even a source for replacement vacuum tubes? I thought they burned out on a consistent basis.
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