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Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

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Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#91

Post by ur-whale »

BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #83

It's a bit worrisome that we are inching towards the scenario where companies may be tempted at an economy wide scale to reduce investment in production in order to hoard cryptocoins instead. It caused the great depression when businesses switched to hoarding gold tied currency instead of producing in the 1930s. Now I'm not sure that crypto coins without being jacked up by central banks (like gold was during the grea…

> It's a bit worrisome that we are inching towards the scenario where companies may be tempted at an economy wide scale to reduce investment in production

Yes, fully agree. But then ask yourself: aside from COVID, who created the economic conditions that lead corporations to decide that stashing treasury as Bitcoin is better than investing in the "productive" part of the economy.

QE, interests rates at near zero, corporate bonds near worthless, stock market at stratospheric 2000-like levels, real estate easily taxed to death ... how do you protect your treasury other than stashing it in hard assets (crypto, gold, commodities)?

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#92

Post by matwood »

pdimitar wrote: post #59
superbcarrot wrote: post #28

Does anyone else feel like: - they've missed an opportunity to get rich with minimal effort from crypto - still have absolutely no interest in jumping in at this point?

That's exactly how I feel. But is there a way to actually cash out? I mean, suppose you had 2 BTC for years. Can you literally get $100K right now in your bank account and can you actually exchange them easily for the fiat currency?

Easily cash out yes, but would have you kept track of that BTC for years is another question. There were plenty of gotchas along the way with BTC before it went completely mainstream. Buggy hardware wallets, scams, exchanges going bankrupt/stealing btc, people's hard drives dying, etc... mean for anyone to have held from $1 to $50k they were prescient and a bit lucky.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#93

Post by akvadrako »

wodenokoto wrote: post #52
superbcarrot wrote: post #28

Does anyone else feel like: - they've missed an opportunity to get rich with minimal effort from crypto - still have absolutely no interest in jumping in at this point?

When it reached 100, I thought, this is the apex, it is not gonna grow anymore, it is too late to jump on. And I've repeated that thought on 1.000, 10.000, 20.000 and again now. So yes, you are not alone in feeling this is a missed opportunity.

Why not just buy a small amount of bitcoins now, something you won't mind losing? If they increase 100 fold you won't feel like you're missing out. And if they don't just think of it as insurance.

I personally hate the idea of bitcoin and avoided it for a long time, but I feel better having a little just to avoid the thought I let my personal feelings get in the way of an opportunity with a good risk/reward ratio.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#94

Post by koolba »

onepointsixC wrote: post #39
1996 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For 12 years, just bubbles? First it was over 1 cent, then over $1, over $1000, now over $50k.... when will you consider the possibility you may have been wrong? At $100k? At $1M? (which most models indicate as a plausible target price in 10 years) Let me give you my favorite quote, pulled from another HNer comment: "I enjoy reading comments about Bitcoin here because even without any venture backing, it achieved a b…

All the Y Combinator companies combined have created value. What has Bitcoin created? I struggle to come up with an answer which isn't overwhelmingly just a way to fund illicit activities, for which sure there's always been a market, but it's a far cry of it's origins. Who actually uses bitcoin for transactions today other than extortionists hackers and drug dealers? Everyone who owns is just planning to HODL and hop…

> What has Bitcoin created?

The biggest impact on the world from bitcoin's creation was not a democratization of finance, it was a widespread mechanism to facilitate payment of blackmail.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#95

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

ur-whale wrote: post #91
BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #83

It's a bit worrisome that we are inching towards the scenario where companies may be tempted at an economy wide scale to reduce investment in production in order to hoard cryptocoins instead. It caused the great depression when businesses switched to hoarding gold tied currency instead of producing in the 1930s. Now I'm not sure that crypto coins without being jacked up by central banks (like gold was during the grea…

> It's a bit worrisome that we are inching towards the scenario where companies may be tempted at an economy wide scale to reduce investment in production Yes, fully agree. But then ask yourself: aside from COVID, who created the economic conditions that lead corporations to decide that stashing treasury as Bitcoin is better than investing in the "productive" part of the economy. QE, interests rates at near zero, cor…

The important thing for the aggregate economy is that when people want "hard assets", that these assets can tangibly support future consumption, not just something everybody hopes to trade later for consumption but real stuff such as businesses, inventory, production capacity etc. When too many people hoard pure financial promises or crypto tokens and all believe that it's true wealth, bad things happens. People indirectly owe each other all their savings.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#96

Post by bhupy »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #79
BLKNSLVR wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin as the gateway to Ethereum and the possibilities opened up by smart contacts such as the currently embryonic DeFi market. Paradigm shift isn't too strong a terminology.

While ETH is cool technology, I haven't seen it impact my personal life in any way yet. That might just be my sheltered life though.

I've only just begun to wrap my head around all of this, and I tried playing with some of the DeFi lending platforms built on top of Ethereum.

It has its kinks, but I think on the net it's a remarkably cool thing. I was able to lend $50 (overcollateralized) at 12% APY without any central institution. The only real wrinkle has been the insane transaction fees: it cost me about $80 to execute the "smart contract" for the $50 12% APY loan. That said, this is a flat cost, and I can very much see the value in paying $80 in transaction costs to be able to lend $50,000 or $500,000 at 12% APY. It also very much feels like "mainframe" days of computing where everything was expensive and impractical, but it was just the beginning.

For the time being, I continue to keep my money safely parked in index funds, but one can get a first hand look at the potential for Eth/DeFi by testing small(ish) transactions out.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#97

Post by akvadrako »

r3dk1ng wrote: post #71
onepointsixC wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the Y Combinator companies combined have created value. What has Bitcoin created? I struggle to come up with an answer which isn't overwhelmingly just a way to fund illicit activities, for which sure there's always been a market, but it's a far cry of it's origins. Who actually uses bitcoin for transactions today other than extortionists hackers and drug dealers? Everyone who owns is just planning to HODL and hop…

I am neither a drug dealer nor an extortionist. I used bitcoin to buy a router from Newegg a month ago.

You paid a $20 transaction fee for a router?

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#98

Post by syrgian »

superbcarrot wrote: post #28

Does anyone else feel like: - they've missed an opportunity to get rich with minimal effort from crypto - still have absolutely no interest in jumping in at this point?

I would have slept a lot worse if people thought that I held millions in an asset that can be easily stolen by invading my home and putting my family at risk. I would only be happy if I was very careful with not revealing who I was, ever (hard to do if a exchange gets compromised).

It helps that I have all my necessities well covered.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#99

Post by mrpopo »

DSingularity wrote: post #89
mrpopo wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm retired thanks to crypto. I'm glad I eventually saw how HN was wrong I don't understand this argument. Becoming rich doesn't prove you right. A technology becoming popular doesn't make it good.

Really? Historically the consensus position on HN was that BTC and crypto is a short-term bubble for an asset class with no fundamental value. Seems to me that people becoming rich because the value of BTC has been going up forever is good enough proof that OP is right in swimming against the HN-current.

BTC going up doesn't mean it has fundamental value. It's a speculative asset with more and more people getting on board.

Hedge fund managers are rich. TV personalities are rich. Many PhD students are poor.

This is not people making the right decisions. This is concentration of money because of economy volatility.

Re: Bitcoin surpasses $50K as major companies jump into crypto

#100

Post by DSingularity »

mrpopo wrote: post #99
DSingularity wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Historically the consensus position on HN was that BTC and crypto is a short-term bubble for an asset class with no fundamental value. Seems to me that people becoming rich because the value of BTC has been going up forever is good enough proof that OP is right in swimming against the HN-current.

BTC going up doesn't mean it has fundamental value. It's a speculative asset with more and more people getting on board. Hedge fund managers are rich. TV personalities are rich. Many PhD students are poor. This is not people making the right decisions. This is concentration of money because of economy volatility.

What do you consider fundamental value? Seems to me that people are willing to pay 50,000$ a BTC and companies are willing to hoard it. How is that not evidence that it has value?
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