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California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

nytimes.com

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Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#151

Post by Guest42 »

tqi wrote: post #141

Why is this always framed as a problem caused by people looking for a place to live? I moved to SF for a job. I'm not the one who decided to not build enough new housing for 30 years. I'm not the one who decided to approve all those new office buildings. Yet I was the problem for renting an overpriced apartment from an SF native who bought in the 90s, and now pays less than $8K/yr in taxes on a place worth over $1M.…

I find it pretty ironic that in Idaho they would oppose a scenario that is aligned to “free market” principles and that Oregon would oppose immigration. I once took a job in Portland and had stuff thrown at my car because of the CA license plate along with screaming “go back to your own state.”

Opinions change very quickly once they involve people personally.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#152

Post by lotsofpulp »

Redoubts wrote: post #139
lotsofpulp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to be educated if there's something I'm missing. Is there a legal maneuver in CA that can prevent people from using their real estate for whatever it's zoned for, excluding frivolous lawsuits?

https://www.sfweekly.com/news/why-a-laundromat-might-be-cons...

It's unfortunate that such blatant corruption on the local level is allowed to fester. One would hope a court somewhere up the chain in the state would come down the right side.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#153

Post by zippergz »

tqi wrote: post #141

Why is this always framed as a problem caused by people looking for a place to live? I moved to SF for a job. I'm not the one who decided to not build enough new housing for 30 years. I'm not the one who decided to approve all those new office buildings. Yet I was the problem for renting an overpriced apartment from an SF native who bought in the 90s, and now pays less than $8K/yr in taxes on a place worth over $1M.…

I've lived in several US cities over the course of my life, and the only constant is that whoever you talk to, the problems are caused by the people who moved there after them.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#154

Post by lotsofpulp »

jeffbee wrote: post #135
lotsofpulp wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to be educated if there's something I'm missing. Is there a legal maneuver in CA that can prevent people from using their real estate for whatever it's zoned for, excluding frivolous lawsuits?

Yes, many jurisdictions in California require city permits for demolition and the process for getting those permits is by no means guaranteed. In my city after you apply for a permit you have to post public notice for 90 days so your nosy neighbors have a chance to go to the "landmarks preservation commission" to argue that your dilapidated shack in which nobody has lived for 50 years is, in fact, a priceless treasur…

That's sad. The whole use permit thing is confusing:

https://www.sccgov.org/sites/dpd/Iwantto/Permits/Pages/UsePe...

On initial reading, I don't see why land zoned for a house would even need a use permit. But then the linked "more" website (which goes to blob.core.windows.net?) says:

>What is a Use Permit?

>A Use Permit is a discretionary land use approval which, under certain circumstances, may authorize a use that is not allowed as a matter of right in a particular zoning district.

>Is a Use Permit Required?

>Each zoning designation has certain uses which are allowed subject to the securing of a Use Permit. These discretionary uses are listed in the Use Table ofArticle 2 of the zoning ordinance.

The first answer says use permits are for authorizing something that's not zoned, and the second answer says all uses require securing a use permit, even for the zoned designations? Looks like a lot of local corruption.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#155

Post by JJMcJ »

imtringued wrote: post #57
AdrianB1 wrote: post #43

Affordable housing is a misleading term used for a few different situations: unless the problem is well defined, there is no proper solution. if affordable means anyone should own a house, no matter the income or lack of - that is utopia. If affordable means cheap enough that lower third income bracket can still afford a house, there are solutions - high density blocks of flats like we have all over in Europe. But if…

You're not supposed to build towers. You're supposed to incrementally upzone neighborhoods over time. detached single family housing to row houses, row houses to 2 story apartment buildings, 2 story apartment buildings to 3-4 story apartment buildings and so on. Building big towers does work, but only if they are surrounded by other, slightly smaller towers.

Incremental:

Take an R-1 neighborhood. Don't necessarily allow 10 floor buildings, though that wouldn't be the end of the world. Maybe allow 25% of houses to be turned into duplexes, even less of a change than row houses. That alone would increase units available.

Humor: The famous Painted Ladies, a block of Victorians in San Francisco, one end of the block has a 7 floor apartment building.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#156

Post by akhilcacharya »

rayiner wrote: post #85

People focus on the supply side, which is important, but has anyone looked at the demand side? How do people have so much money to drive up these prices? I grew up in an 1,100 square foot house, built in 1950, my parents bought for $175,000 in 1989. Today Redfin has it at $660,000. Its a drab house in a drab suburb of DC. It's no boom town--the population of the town has grown just 10% in 30 years. But everyone just…

Everyone talks about the billionaires soaking up the windfall for the last 40 years, but really it's the upper middle class that's leading the charge here.

Massive wealth inequality in this country is being driven by an increasingly prosperous upper middle class [0].

[0] https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-dangerous-separation-...

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#157

Post by harryh »

rayiner wrote: post #85

People focus on the supply side, which is important, but has anyone looked at the demand side? How do people have so much money to drive up these prices? I grew up in an 1,100 square foot house, built in 1950, my parents bought for $175,000 in 1989. Today Redfin has it at $660,000. Its a drab house in a drab suburb of DC. It's no boom town--the population of the town has grown just 10% in 30 years. But everyone just…

175k to 660k in 32 years is only a 4.25% increase per year. That's really not much at all.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#158

Post by nly »

nutshell89 wrote: post #100

The problem is that not only is there zero appetite to phase out housing-as-investment boosting policies like the mortgage interest deduction, imputed rent exemption, and cap gains exemption at the federal level, en vogue affordable housing strategies have focused on keeping interest rates low, providing 1st time home-buyer tax credits, and strengthening fair lending regulations. The U.S.(western nations with high ho…

In the UK mortgage interest deductions were eliminated from income tax but it just pushed professional landlords to move to holding property in more elaborate incorporated structures

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#159

Post by rayiner »

davidw wrote: post #102
jeffbee wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's handy to say "nowhere is building" but it's not really supported by the data. Look at Dallas and Houston compared to San Francisco. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=B6Tc

BTW, for people looking for other examples of how to grow, who might not like the idea of Houston's sprawl, I've always liked this article: https://www.sightline.org/2017/09/21/yes-you-can-build-your-...

Yes, housing isn’t a problem in a city whose population is the same today as it was in 1935, in a country that’s projected to slowly shrink over the next century.

Re: California’s affordable housing problem is really a national one

#160

Post by davidw »

tqi wrote: post #141

Why is this always framed as a problem caused by people looking for a place to live? I moved to SF for a job. I'm not the one who decided to not build enough new housing for 30 years. I'm not the one who decided to approve all those new office buildings. Yet I was the problem for renting an overpriced apartment from an SF native who bought in the 90s, and now pays less than $8K/yr in taxes on a place worth over $1M.…

I don't think the article frames it that way, really, if you look at the conclusion. I'd also highly recommend his book for an introduction to land use politics, centered around the bay area:

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/585765/golden-gates...

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