I just youtubed this guy and found a 10hr video of him programming for this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Hlb8YX2-W8
Autopilot on Cars for $999
181–190 of 298 posts
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
What's the appropriate level of liability? If I buy a cell phone holder for my car, and it distracts me and I get into an accident? What if Car Play lags and i'm distracted and I get into an accident? What if radio plays an ambulance and I freak out and get into an accident? What if my sunglasses make me mistake a red light? This product does lane assist. It does a good job according to consumer reports [0], higher t…
Please don't doxx Ford engineers if you don't give any proof. There are hard working, ethical people working who don't want to kill people by lightheartedly pushing stuff on the road. Just because you don't know them does not mean they are not talented.
I think you meant "diss", not "doxx".
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#183It seems like the market for a product like this (augmenting older vehicles) will diminish over time as more and more vehicles come with these features plus rolling updates and more advanced sensors standard. If this proves to be the case, I wonder what the company will do to pivot
Sell directly to manufacturers? Nearly no one (except Tesla) has anything coming in the near future. Why anyone they pay billions to develop the technology in-house if they can just pay Comma.ai to integrate a sub $1000 thingy in their cars.
I don't think Comma would pass compliance as any control-related automotive system, much less a self-driving one, at any established automotive manufacturer in a regulated market (US, EU). The code isn't written to any commercial audit standard that I can tell, the hardware is COTS mobile phone hardware, and change management and testing (in a formal sense) seems pretty much non-existent. Most manufacturers demand compliance with standards like ISO 26262 for liability reasons. Arguments about the value of these kinds of standards aside, it's vanishingly unlikely that any mature automaker would buy Comma's product as it stands - a major or nearly complete overhaul would be required. Now, that's not to say they couldn't sell into a less-mature company or one in an unregulated market, but I don't think the opportunity for them is as great as it seems.
EDIT: On an additional reading of https://github.com/commaai/openpilot/blob/master/SAFETY.md Comma claim to be ISO 26262 compliant on the premise that there's no real risk model, because the driver is paying attention and will simply take back control. One could call this the "Elon Model" to safety compliance. I suppose it works for some manufacturers.
It does seem that starting around 2018, Comma added a C layer to their CAN intercept board (Panda) which audit-checks some safety-critical CAN messages to bounds-check the control inputs. That's... a start, but not really a detailed risk analysis model by any means.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295). Filtering by "bug" in the issue tracker gives: Comma two freeze and reboot while engaged . I recently had an incident on the interstate where my comma two froze completely (while engaged) and rebooted. The video froze, Comma's steering torque turned off, then after about five seconds in this state, the device rebooted. Zygote restarting while OP…
Cool. Now do Volvo Pilot Assist. Comma.ai is trying to do big things and I hope they succeed. No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car and I have little faith in auto manufacturers to deliver. Lane assist technology exists. Look at consumer reports for a comprehensive review [0] (comma.ai was #1 in lane assist, above even tesla). They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much mor…
> No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car
It seems to me that there are many reasons it should be bundled, and I'll bet that in the long run all self-driving cars will be integrated systems. It's not a good place for inconsistent installations or a modding mentality--imagine multiplying Uber and Tesla's programs a thousandfold with fewer resources and less accountability.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
Cool. Now do Volvo Pilot Assist. Comma.ai is trying to do big things and I hope they succeed. No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car and I have little faith in auto manufacturers to deliver. Lane assist technology exists. Look at consumer reports for a comprehensive review [0] (comma.ai was #1 in lane assist, above even tesla). They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much mor…
> No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car It seems to me that there are many reasons it should be bundled, and I'll bet that in the long run all self-driving cars will be integrated systems. It's not a good place for inconsistent installations or a modding mentality--imagine multiplying Uber and Tesla's programs a thousandfold with fewer resources and less accountability.
or, imagine if there's standard interfaces between the motors/control system and the "brains" of self driving.
Like how CDs and peripherals don't all need to come from the same manufacturer ('cept apple's!), because there's an industry standard for interoperability.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
The difference is that Volvo does not disclaim liability.
Oh I didn't know that. Can you point me to their liability policy? [EDIT] this was the best I could find > You are always ultimately responsible for driving in a safe manner, even when using Pilot Assist. https://www.volvocars.com/uk/support/topics/use-your-car/car... I don't think comma.ai should be faulted for being open. I have trouble finding any statements on liability on any other lane assist technology. Would…
Volvo sells a car with an optional feature that has hardware and software components. If you can prove that the hardware or software is “unreasonably dangerous” in design or implementation, you may have standing to sue Volvo.
Comma sells only some hardware (with some limited software?). Comma suggests, but is careful not to encourage for street use, that customers modify the hardware with open source software that makes the hardware dramatically more useful. If the hardware functions perfectly but this software proves unreasonably dangerous, you do not likely have standing to sue Comma.
I think it’s really cool that late model cars are adequately unencumbered to make experimentation like Comma possible. Aside from the sketchy commercialization, Comma seems impressive and valuable. I have seen no evidence Comma is any less safe than the auto manufacturers’ LKA products.
My beef is that Comma-the-product imposes an externality on our roads by bringing experimental driver assistance software to the mass market that is not backed by the software product’s developers (or any other entity).
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#187I've been using this on/off since early 2019. Much better than stock honda LKAS / cruise control in terms of detecting lanes, lower speeds, etc.
The driver monitoring has gotten a lot better as well. If you are inattentive (based on your gaze) and don't respond the the prompts quickly, it plays a loud alarm and disables the system (until the car restarts) to prevent something like the videos of people sleeping in Teslas you see online.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "with you also paying attention." So no guarantees whatsoever then. Because you are always responsible and are always expected to recover from anything the autopilot might ever come up with. Teslas do fail in deadly ways. Everyone that cares to look knows this. Yet Tesla is fine with it, even while knowing that humans can't reason about safety when the car drives perfectly the other 99% of times.
> Because you are always responsible and are always expected to recover from anything the autopilot might ever come up with. That's always been the case for any driving assistance systems that automakers offer, AFAIK. Do you object to the state of driving assistance in general or just how Tesla implements it?
Well driving assistance are mostly about assistance.
While Tesla allows for and gives the impression of it doing more than that, when it can't. You are expected to react within a split second at any time. Actually just driving the car is a way simpler task than supervising someone else that has unintuitive blind spots.
Something that google discovered early on and anyone that thinks about it realize. A car that mostly drives itself is way more dangerous than a car without any assistance at all.
Ask Uber.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
The latest commit in the repo [0] right now is "should work" (34ff295). Filtering by "bug" in the issue tracker gives: Comma two freeze and reboot while engaged . I recently had an incident on the interstate where my comma two froze completely (while engaged) and rebooted. The video froze, Comma's steering torque turned off, then after about five seconds in this state, the device rebooted. Zygote restarting while OP…
Cool. Now do Volvo Pilot Assist. Comma.ai is trying to do big things and I hope they succeed. No reason self-driving technology should be bundled with a car and I have little faith in auto manufacturers to deliver. Lane assist technology exists. Look at consumer reports for a comprehensive review [0] (comma.ai was #1 in lane assist, above even tesla). They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much mor…
> They are open about their mistakes, issues and tradeoffs, much more so than other companies. I don't think its right for engineers use this as a cudgel to beat them over the head.
This openness gives us consumers an opportunity to look under the hood and evaluate the tech for what it is, which is a good thing and should be applauded.
However.
I’ve used that freedom to look at their code and processes and I’ve decided that this is not software that I want my life to depend on. There are serious outstanding bugs that Comma doesn’t have the manpower to investigate fully, their default assumption seems to be that the hardware is faulty, their test suite is regularly failing, pair programming / code review is sometimes used and sometimes not, PRs are created and merged without a description or comment. That’s just scraping the surface, without going into things like whether or not Python is a good choice for this sort of thing or if there’s a bug in my car’s CAN implantation that will get triggered by this and end up killing me.
All in all, I trust Volvo more than I trust Comma.ai. Maybe that trust is misplaced? For what it’s worth I don’t really trust any level 2 self driving tech.
Re: Autopilot on Cars for $999
#190is the "retrofit" strategy living in the past? living in 2021 it seems a bad choice to buy gasoline cars. Most new cars coming out will have some kind of driving assist (L2 autopilot).