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Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

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Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Most of our offices are in large cities like New York, London and Stockholm" I looked out my window and laugthed abit reading that. They can't compare Stockholm with London amd NY like that ... Spotify in Stockholm does not pay NY wages today atleast.

Are their glassdoor salaries accurate? 58000 kr/mo for senior developers? You could find similar jobs in Warsaw with half the cost of living.

I don't have first or 2nd hand info but most likely they are.

58 000 SEK/month total compensation (7000USD/month) is approx. the 75th percentile of unionized software engineers (all ages) in Stockholm according to the engineering union.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#272
post #20

Make hay while the sun shines. A true shift to remote work, should it happen, spells the eventual end of insanely high SF FANMAG salaries. Market forces will soon close these opportunities. My limited experience tells me people aren't prepared for homogenization of salaries across geographies: South East England, outside London: 1x London: 2x New York: 3x San Francisco: 6x On making hay: A friend of mine is currently…

That works both ways though. The 6x places might move to, say, 4x over time, but the 1x and 2x places will salary upwards to compete. As someone who works in the Midwest USA, I don't see anything but upside for people like myself.

A company that goes fully remote might simply choose to close offices in the 4-6x places.

> As someone who works in the Midwest USA, I don't see anything but upside for people like myself.

I worked for a large tech company that started going remote before COVID. Once they started pulling out of expensive cities and opening offices in cheaper foreign countries, it became an uphill battle to hire anyone in the United States at all. Why hire a $100K Midwest US engineer when you can hire two good international engineers for the same salary and not have to pay for their health insurance?

There will always be some demand for US engineers and time zones put some limits on outsourcing, but opening the floodgates to full-remote companies means that even engineers in the cheapest US cities are now competing against increasingly qualified engineers who will happily take half the compensation to do the exact same work.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#273
post #199
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> London is roughly as expensive as NYC or SF yet the Big Tech total compensation is 30-40% less than SF/NYC. I don't know. NY seems to be consistently more expensive judging by [0], particularly rent. Overall NY taxes are only 1-3% lower from my calculations, so I think overall NY'ers don't have it much better. The UK is also particularly generous when it comes to tax-advantaged investment and has state healthcare.…

I've lived in both NYC and London (although not in London for years now). Housing is a hard one to compare. Your link mentions city center and out of city center. I'm not sure what that means exactly. The big issue with London is you have to go _far_ to get affordable housing and commute times are generally terrible. I'm not sure what the picture looks like now with Crossrail. The thing about New York is yes, Manhatt…

My experience of London:

- There's little difference, time-wise, between being located in a town on commuter rail, vs somewhere three connections away on the tube. If you're inside the M25 but outside the North / South Circular, you need to be very close to a station or you're practically worse off than someone living in a town on the railway.

- Motorcycles and scooters, and increasingly, electric bicycles, are the big hack. Free or cheap parking, mostly unaffected by traffic (filtering), not stuck when the trains are cancelled, not constrained by the sparseness of the rail and tube network as you get further from the centre.

Crossrail isn't open yet (due next year, but I wouldn't bet on it); Crossrail 2 is mothballed and probably won't be built for a few decades.

I live in a 120sqm 4 bed house with garden in Enfield, 40 minutes motorcycle commute from Clerkenwell, or 60-80 minutes by tube and train, depending on delays and timing (don't leave enough slack and you miss a connection). We used to live in a very small 60 sqm 3 bed house with garden in Bow, which was about 30 minutes from Clerkenwell. Mortgage now is £1500; rent (for over 10 years, nice landlord) used to be £1300. There's fewer food delivery options, and an Uber home is (or was) the preferred route after a night out, vs a night bus to Bow, but overall it's a higher quality of life.

Of course, with Brexit, I'm headed for Zurich.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That works both ways though. The 6x places might move to, say, 4x over time, but the 1x and 2x places will salary upwards to compete. As someone who works in the Midwest USA, I don't see anything but upside for people like myself.

I'm not sure sure about that. The 6x places can pay that because of high revenue per employee. It's not like the 1x places will suddenly see a higher revenue per employee to pay higher compensation.

There's people scattered all over the country making 2x-3x rates that could have been earning 6x, but moving to San Fran or NYC was never a feasible option. The 6x companies will offer them 4x, settle on 4.5x, and both parties are happy. It will inevitably drive down the 6x pay, but drive up the 1x-3x pay. However, the companies will be the real winners though unless there's some type of coordination between all employees...Not only will they have massive payroll cost savings, buy they will reduce office rent expenses, electricity use, etc.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#275
post #2

Do they pay those salaries in Europe? Because European salaries are usually 1/3 of the US rate.

I think European salaries are more like 1/2 of the US rate. Mexico/LatAm salaries are 1/3.

Most European salaries may be 1/2 the SF rates. But that is not a fair comparison. A Google engineer in Zurich, Switzerland makes almost as much as one in SF, at an also very high cost of living.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#276
post #179
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is only true in a non-remote work environment where people would have to commute into office building for work if everyone is commuting 5 feet to a home office then the efficiency of rural vs urban becomes less disparate Add in Solar power and it becomes even less so of course there still is some in the delivery of supplies, but even these can be some what mitigated to where the differences are minor

There's not enough tax base to support infrastructure like installing broadband, repairing and winter upkeep of roads and electric grid, fire stations, hospitals. Even businesses like nursing homes which one expects would benefit from lower property costs do not prosper due to lack of population and supportive medical services. Lower COL areas are net users of tax revenue from the country due to inefficiency, cities…

That's only a result of the resources made available by the inhabitation of rural lands being under-valued on the market due to subsidies. Say goodbye to affordable food prices if we don't subsidize rural locales.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#277
post #262

Please take note that Spotify pays sub-market salaries for these cities. The reason being that they do not offer RSUs but instead public stock options without any discount. - Typical FAANG compensation: X base pay + Y RSUs + Z signing bonus - Spotify: X base pay + Y stock options (public, so equivalent to you purchasing stocks really) + no signing bonus

Spotify gives you the choice of RSUs or options or straight cash. https://hrblog.spotify.com/2019/06/13/show-me-the-incentive/

Cool, they must have changed their comp structure then as the previous model was an immediate "no-no".

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#278

Maybe they should pay their artists more, instead of their employees.

Many people here are against copyright and thus by fault, royalties (of other peoples work, not their own), but as a hypothetical, I wonder the same.

It appears the major labels sold their catalogues for a pittance and streaming platforms are 'making hay'. We could have been streaming The Beatles on an app called EMIMusic had they not been so slow on the uptake of the internet.

As soon as all music is finally only made by people who have no monetary concerns, the end of revolutions will also be nigh.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing a referral.

I’m not sure. I was referred by an employee several times at Shopify for instance and it did nothing for me. A referral in a lot of places is just so that the company knows who to give the referral bonus to if you’re hired but it doesn’t give you any kind of edge.

The nature of the referral matters.

If the referral comes from a respected engineer known to the hiring manager and the candidate is a good fit for the open position, things can move pretty quickly.

If it's just a name thrown into a pot or entered into a form in some internal system, there isn't a whole lot of internal pressure.

Re: Spotify is letting employees work from anywhere while paying SF and NY salaries

#280

Recruiting is proving insanely difficult right now. We are based just outside of London and have been offering "local remote" (1 day in week office generally) for about 4 years now. Candidates were always hard to attract (salary and office location) but offering remote work 4 days a week really helped. Now, that perk is now a norm so access to even remotely (no pun intended) skilled candidates is next to impossible.

It shouldn’t be that hard. I’d drop the one day a week in office requirement and make sure you’re paying market rates (e.g. £100k+ for mid level devs). Lots of good people looking to go fully remote right now.

Mid level devs are more like £70-80k. Although actual quality varies.
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