The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
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The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
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Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#2"Many people believe that evidence for a lack of free will was found when, in the 1980s, scientist Benjamin Libet conducted experiments that seemed to show that the brain “registers” the decision to make movements before a person consciously decides to move. In Libet’s experiments, participants were asked to perform a simple task such as pressing a button or flexing their wrist. Sitting in front of a timer, they were asked to note the moment at which they were consciously aware of the decision to move, while EEG electrodes attached to their head monitored their brain activity."
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#3If curious see also
Related from 2019: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21484321
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#4This sort of debate always struck me as nonsense. If our actions are not derived of our own free will, but just exist as a small part of nature, then if you follow that thread far enough you’ll understand that all reason and truth would also be invalid, being just the effect to some coincidental cause. This incidentally would render theories about the subject of free will invalid as well.
Thus if there is no free will there is no way for us to know it.
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#5This sort of debate always struck me as nonsense. If our actions are not derived of our own free will, but just exist as a small part of nature, then if you follow that thread far enough you’ll understand that all reason and truth would also be invalid, being just the effect to some coincidental cause. This incidentally would render theories about the subject of free will invalid as well. Thus if there is no free wil…
Suppose an all powerful god controls everything that happens to us. Could not such a God give us the knowledge that we have no free will?
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#6I find attempts to disprove free will incredibly boring. If there is no free will, then everything the investigators wrote and did is the result of some deterministic (or random) process which doesn’t have anything to do with logic or evidence and whether or not people accept the conclusion is also independent of reason and logic.
Without at least the illusion of free will, there cannot be any discussion or argument, as that presupposes free will and an ability to change one’s mind in response to evidence.
By arguing against free will, you are cutting off the branch on which argument itself depends on.
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#7I find attempts to disprove free will incredibly boring. If there is no free will, then everything the investigators wrote and did is the result of some deterministic (or random) process which doesn’t have anything to do with logic or evidence and whether or not people accept the conclusion is also independent of reason and logic. Without at least the illusion of free will, there cannot be any discussion or argument,…
I’m not sure I understand this counter argument. Surely we can rationalize in a deterministic universe without having free will to make independent decisions based on objective rationalizations.
What about understanding the clock structure? Does that limit my ability to reason about time? Or about digital clocks? Or to be upset at someone for not showing up when I was expecting them to.
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#8The idea that this experiment would disprove free will seems to rely on thinking that the 'conscious' mind is somehow separate from your physical brain, and free will is the act of your non-physical consciousness telling your body to move.
This seems like nonsense to me. Your brain waves are the not caused by thoughts, they ARE your thoughts. Of course they are present before you are conscious of your decision to move, because they ARE your consciousness.
Free will does not mean it has to be separate from your physics brain.
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#9The idea that this experiment would disprove free will seems to rely on thinking that the 'conscious' mind is somehow separate from your physical brain, and free will is the act of your non-physical consciousness telling your body to move. This seems like nonsense to me. Your brain waves are the not caused by thoughts, they ARE your thoughts. Of course they are present before you are conscious of your decision to mov…
This article seems kind of like noting that a web server returns a response to the caller before logging it.
Re: The Libet experiment doesn't disprove free will (2019)
#10Can someone actually provide a definition of free will? Apart from the legalistic definition - the ability to make decisions without being coerced by third parties or external factors - any other meaning seems to require dualism, the existence of some external force that can affect the brain and make decisions with some magical non-causal mechanism, which is to me a rather illogical concept.
It seems it is just a nebulous, ill-defined concept used to soothe discomfort with the idea that people's decisions are caused by physical processes, governed by the same laws as the rest of the universe.