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Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

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Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#31

Unrelated to the algorithm, I’ve found that doing things “by hand” is a surprisingly good way to develop intuition for otherwise opaque concepts. I wonder if it’s a function of doing work more slowly or paying closer attention. Examples include writing code written by others and working through math on paper.

If I’m unfamiliar with a project I force slow work by first looking for existing process improvements, like organized GitHub milestones and well-described and meta’d issues.

I’ll commonly explore new tech by generating my own summarized documentation and through light tooling of initial configuration.

I am in the midst of this now where an existing operational “algorithm” needs better software support.

A lot of the discovery for that is starting with very general issues describing “problem” areas and then drilling them down to specific issues that might require action.

It can be tedious to go this “slow,” but it’s how I get to fast.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#32

A very interesting part of Bitcoin is that there’s no reason it couldn’t have been invented 10 years earlier (after having practical public key cryptography). Anyways, better late then never.

It took a true genius & visionary to see that the whole is better than the sum of its parts. A masterclass of engineering, economics, & philosophy. Very few still understand the importance

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#33
This is somewhat off-topic but I'm going to ask here because it's really hard to find "trusted" information regarding BitCoin and Ethereum mining online - it seems everyone's trying to make a commission or running a scam:

Is it true that one cannot (or should not for their best interest) mine BitCoin/Eth without being part of a pool, unless one has a datacenter or warehouse full of GPUs dedicated to mining? If that's true, is there a legitimate, low-fee pool a fellow HNer can recommend? All the ones I have run into are either on Google's list of "malware domains" or are else blacklisted by my pfSense DNS blacklist because they're on the list of malicious DNS names used by crytojacker plugins and malware. I understand false positives and work around these blacklists all the time, but each of these sites feels scammier and sleazier than the next...

(Edit: It's minus 8 degrees Fahrenheit outside and I'm mainly curious to see if heating my home office with an RTX 2080 that's taking a break from ML while I'm busy with other things can generate enough heat while offsetting my electrical bill to be a more cost-effective alternative to the dirt-cheap but terribly inefficient natural gas furnace.)

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#34
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I misread the GP, as explained below. Sorry! " Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Isn’t that kind of what you are doing by posting that comment? You could respond and explain why you disagree - instead you just shallowly dismissed their comment by saying it was shallow. Also maybe I’m crazy but their comment seemed to be a joke/commentary on the environmental resources used by Bitcoin. That isn’t a shallow dismissal.

Moderation comments are certainly bad HN comments—they're off-topic, they're meta, they're repetitive as hell [1]. And you're right that they sometimes break the rules they're trying to enforce. They're also even more tedious to write than to read [2]. But, alas, they're necessary. You need an out-of-band feedback mechanism to nudge the system out of its failure modes.

I take your point about the GP being a joke, though—the edit makes that clear. The problem with one-liners that don't disambiguate intent [3] is that they pattern-match to the most common category they look like.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/posts?id=dang

[2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

[3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#35
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, I understood how pointer works when I drew them on paper. I was struggling for a week, then I tried on paper and in 10 minutes I got it.

So much screen-staring time can be saved with just pen and paper. We need to learn to do it more often.

I love whiteboards, they are much better than paper: more space, nice colors, easy to see, very easy to collaborate on, simple redos. That's actually the biggest thing I miss from going into the office: nice huge whiteboards that cover the whole wall, not the little dinky ones that office depot sells for exorbitant prices.

I found a solution though: Lowe's sells a 4'x8' sheet of whiteboard for fifteen bucks, now I have my whiteboard covered wall in my home office so I'm happy again.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#36

This is somewhat off-topic but I'm going to ask here because it's really hard to find "trusted" information regarding BitCoin and Ethereum mining online - it seems everyone's trying to make a commission or running a scam: Is it true that one cannot (or should not for their best interest) mine BitCoin/Eth without being part of a pool, unless one has a datacenter or warehouse full of GPUs dedicated to mining? If that's…

I think the Universe is telling you something, and you know what it is.

Why do you want to be in a mining pool, instead of buying bitcoin?

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#37
post #18
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I misread the GP, as explained below. Sorry! " Please don't post shallow dismissals, especially of other people's work. A good critical comment teaches us something. " https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Isn’t that kind of what you are doing by posting that comment? You could respond and explain why you disagree - instead you just shallowly dismissed their comment by saying it was shallow. Also maybe I’m crazy but their comment seemed to be a joke/commentary on the environmental resources used by Bitcoin. That isn’t a shallow dismissal.

It's a shallow joke. One of the rules of HN is to attempt to have thoughtful and substantive discussions.

An entire comment that is just a joke is not how you end up with substantive discussion, which I think has been well proven by reddit long since.

It's fine to have a joke to lead into a well articulated point, but an entire comment shouldn't _just_ be a joke, unless it's the rare case of a joke that is insightful, not just a shared cultural reference (in this case to a common other argument on HN).

> Isn’t that kind of what you are doing by posting that comment?

I think this is akin to the paradox of tolerance.

There's the saying "that with is presented without evidence may be dismissed without evidence".

I think the HN analogue would be "that which is posted without an attempt to have a substantive discussion can be dismissed out of hand".

Similar to how a gish gallop works, it's absolutely not plausible for dang to respond to every comment that violates HN guidelines with a full breakdown of why he believes so. The volume of poor comments simply is so high that he would need to spend far more hours than he can spare for that.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#38

This is somewhat off-topic but I'm going to ask here because it's really hard to find "trusted" information regarding BitCoin and Ethereum mining online - it seems everyone's trying to make a commission or running a scam: Is it true that one cannot (or should not for their best interest) mine BitCoin/Eth without being part of a pool, unless one has a datacenter or warehouse full of GPUs dedicated to mining? If that's…

The only point in mining pools is to lower variance

If I have enough hardware to mine $10btc/day it would take on average ~70 years to mine a block (worth $300000), whereas with a pool I'd get my $10/day consistently

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#39

This is somewhat off-topic but I'm going to ask here because it's really hard to find "trusted" information regarding BitCoin and Ethereum mining online - it seems everyone's trying to make a commission or running a scam: Is it true that one cannot (or should not for their best interest) mine BitCoin/Eth without being part of a pool, unless one has a datacenter or warehouse full of GPUs dedicated to mining? If that's…

A quick google search for "biggest bitcoin pools" is helpful- https://btc.com/stats/pool

Most of the pools listed there are easy enough to sign up and start contributing to.

Re: Mining Bitcoin with pencil and paper: 0.67 hashes per day (2014)

#40

This is somewhat off-topic but I'm going to ask here because it's really hard to find "trusted" information regarding BitCoin and Ethereum mining online - it seems everyone's trying to make a commission or running a scam: Is it true that one cannot (or should not for their best interest) mine BitCoin/Eth without being part of a pool, unless one has a datacenter or warehouse full of GPUs dedicated to mining? If that's…

Correct, mining in a pool you are guaranteed your fair share of the mining (minus admin fee from the pool operators). Even if you never mine a single block, you get your fair share of the mined blocks by the pool.

If you were to mine by yourself, you'd get zero pay outs unless you actually mined a block. It is possible, but the odds are on par with winning the lottery.

DYOR on pools, but I can recommend f2pool (https://www.f2pool.com/) for Ethereum mining.

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