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Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

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Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#201

Post by aidangrimshaw »

thanksforfish wrote: post #140

This is really cool, and I'd like to encourage work like this. I currently don't think I can recommend this to others because: It isn't immediately obvious who is running the site. whois info lists a Canadian privacy company. The site doesn't have an about page. Github has contributor info, which may help. Tax returns need to be private and accurate. If it's hard to verify that the authors are even in the US, it's ha…

That whois information is interesting, I registered the domain through google domains. The Canadian company is probably being used by google for whoisguard reasons?

The site runs client side only, with no external API calls, so assuming you trust the code in the repo is the code being served to you then no data can leave your computer. If you're curious you could probably verify by clicking around on the site and checking the network calls made to ensure there's no external API calls

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#202

Post by freewilly1040 »

sunnyam wrote: post #149
thanksforfish wrote: post #140

This is really cool, and I'd like to encourage work like this. I currently don't think I can recommend this to others because: It isn't immediately obvious who is running the site. whois info lists a Canadian privacy company. The site doesn't have an about page. Github has contributor info, which may help. Tax returns need to be private and accurate. If it's hard to verify that the authors are even in the US, it's ha…

It looks very easy to just build this from source, which is what privacy-concerned users would do anyway

That sounds like more trouble than just learning how to file your taxes?

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#203

Post by kuyan »

rayiner wrote: post #147
kristopolous wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second one is new to me. It's really fascinating how they choose a set of policies and work hard to construct a reality that supports the policy positions. It strikes me as so backwards. It's tinfoil hat, but my only conclusion is the actual reasons for the policy are so incredibly unpopular that they invent these realities to obscure them.

How are they “constructing a reality?” How much taxes you pay is the reality. They’re trying to draw more attention to it, by forcing you to look the numbers in the face once a year. That’s not “constructing reality” it’s drawing attention to it. I love paying my taxes and support higher taxes with more government services. But I agree with Norquist that it’s a useful exercise for people to go through once a year and…

> But I agree with Norquist that it’s a useful exercise for people to go through once a year and write down how much they make and what part of that the government is taking.

Were it that simple, I would agree. This approach is problematic in the US because:

- the tax code is too complex for the average citizen to approach on their own,

- powerful interests such as Intuit have a vested interest in keeping things difficult for their own gain, and

- reporting your income incorrectly (when the IRS already knows what to expect!) can expose one potential criminal penalties.

> I don’t like the idea of socializing people to accept higher taxes by deducting them automatically and making it so they never have to think about how much they’re paying.

I think this is an implementation detail; there are solutions to removing unnecessary pain from tax filing that combat regulatory capture while keeping people involved with the process of taxation. Advocacy for lower taxes and tax reform are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#204

Post by aidangrimshaw »

sverhagen wrote: post #96
aidangrimshaw wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A future improvement I am looking into is adding unit tests for tax calculation. If the project gets popular enough I would probably hire an accountant to verify everything.

When using a well-known site like TurboTax, while I'm totally appalled by their business practices, I have at least an assumption that I can do my taxes half decent (and not too much more than that either). It will be really hard for an open source project to gain enough momentum for me to have the same confidence. For a lot of other open source projects I can just try, and see what happens. But I'm not going to try…

That's absolutely fair! I think finding a solution to this will be key to any kind of mainstream adoption

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#205

Post by kakwa_ »

vages wrote: post #67
benhurmarcel wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France for example, when it's time to declare your income you receive an email (or a letter if you prefer). You log in with your fiscal number and password, and get an online form where you can declare any type of income. For most people, the numbers are pre-filled (communicated by the employer). You can modify them, check your bank account IBAN for paying/refunds, and validate. In Spain it's the same, except unfo…

Good on you! That sounds surprisingly modern compared to what I've heard about for example online banking in France from people who were exchange students there. From what I've heard, you have to show up physically for most bank stuff. Is that true? Disclaimer: I was told this by people who were exchange students there at least two years ago. Things may have changed and/or be different (i.e. harder) for foreigners.

You can do pretty much any bank operation online these days, at least the most common operation like opening an account (life insurance, PEL, CEL, livret A, etc), getting your RIB (bank ID pdf), making transfers (one offs and recurring ones), declare a lost credit card, etc.

And it has been like that for a while (I remember opening a PEL online and configuring a monthly transfer to fill it when I started working 10 years ago). Maybe all the banks are/were not at the same level, but with mine, BNP, it was possible.

Also, now, I also have bank accounts in a more "international" bank (HSBC), and to be honest, even if the website as the same functionalities, HSBC website is a lot more clunkier, mixing the old and the new than BNP's one which is reasonably good looking and easy to use.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#206

Post by BrandoElFollito »

In France you get online taxes per-filled with all information. It covers almost all the cases (including when you hire someone to help you at home) so for 99.999% of the popolation it is a matter of 5 clucks, for z total of 2 minutes to fill in your taxes.

I actually do not understand why this is not automatic. If you have a special case you would need to act, otherwise it accepts by default.

I read a few times about the lobby of tax software companies in the US, it is really weird that they can get away with such practices.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#207

Post by kristopolous »

rayiner wrote: post #147
kristopolous wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second one is new to me. It's really fascinating how they choose a set of policies and work hard to construct a reality that supports the policy positions. It strikes me as so backwards. It's tinfoil hat, but my only conclusion is the actual reasons for the policy are so incredibly unpopular that they invent these realities to obscure them.

How are they “constructing a reality?” How much taxes you pay is the reality. They’re trying to draw more attention to it, by forcing you to look the numbers in the face once a year. That’s not “constructing reality” it’s drawing attention to it. I love paying my taxes and support higher taxes with more government services. But I agree with Norquist that it’s a useful exercise for people to go through once a year and…

The legal system is a construction, the rules we have to follow is a reality. A constructed reality.

Why is it constructed in that way? There's a reason, it doesn't come from nowhere. What is the reason?

Pretty basic stuff here

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#208

Post by laurencerowe »

vages wrote: post #15

Related fun (and sad) fact: In Norway, the tax submission forms are online and so user friendly that you don't need a tax filing program like this. Edit: Here is a link to an explanation for the form, in English, which was revamped in 2020: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/tax-return/tax-r... The submission form is essentially a wizard that asks you questions related to your situation and your past year. D…

When I worked in Norway I forgot to ask for my tax return to be produced in English (since I spoke no Norwegian.) It was still easier to complete than the US one.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#209

Post by m463 »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #31
m463 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the good reason: some people are philosophically opposed to easy taxes - people should be painfully aware of the money they are giving to the government. (sort of like folks who have VAT complain about advertised US retail prices which don't include tax) The bad reason: Lobbying by intuit and parties to prevent easy tax preparation. Their ROI on regulatory capture is very very good.

> the good reason: some people are philosophically opposed to easy taxes - people should be painfully aware of the money they are giving to the government. That’s only a good reason if you’re opposed to the actual programs and/or outcomes. If you favor those programs and outcomes, making people “painfully aware” of their cost almost certainly undermines them. Which... > The bad reason: Lobbying by intuit and parties…

> That’s only a good reason if you’re opposed to the actual programs and/or outcomes.

Your argument seems to be that if you pay more taxes, then you get good programs and services.

In a similar vein, you should give your kid lots of lunch money to take to school, because he would have a more nutritious lunch. :)

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