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Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

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Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#191

Post by pseudozach »

hahahahe wrote: post #93
markkat wrote: post #20

I expect that once Ethereum completes the switch to PoS, this issue is going to loom large for Bitcoin.

This is why I think a big land grab will happen for ETH. And even though I think bitcoin is grossly overvalued, ETH could accelerate and possibly surpass bitcoin in terms of paid-in capital. PoS, at least in theory, creates future cash flow. Not a fan of crypto but Vitalik is one of very few people in the crypto space with genuine good intentions and intellectual curiosity.

he also has a %70 premine of this coin with his buddies. Eth also have a dynamic issuance schedule exactly like USD, EUR or any other fiat. Except instead of a Central Bank, a few devs decide it.

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#192

Post by solosoyokaze »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #190
solosoyokaze wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not moving the goal posts. I cannot do this right now. > There isn’t any barrier to programmatic banking. There absolutely is, there's no open API for this.

> I cannot do this right now There is a difference between not being able to and not knowing how to. You can. There are no-minimum balance API banking interfaces. There just isn’t a common enough use case for them to be heavily advertised. We can move the goalpost again to an open API, but that’s another thing once more.

Go back and reread my original comment. I stand by my statement. Can you open 10k accounts right now? I'm sure you can't.

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#193

Post by tor12 »

deeeeplearning wrote: post #181
tor11 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> trip to the grocery store try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? > actually interested in them as currency it is still a currency.

>try sending money to someone in north korea. how many hours does that take? Thats the best defense for Btc you have? >it is still a currency. The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers.

> Thats the best defense for Btc you have?

it is the most obvious use case that is superior to everything currently in use.

> The only people consistently using BTC as currency are drug dealers or drug buyers.

no. but even if true, does that make it less of a currency?

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#194

Post by africanboy »

solosoyokaze wrote: post #76
cableshaft wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the first one I noticed, and if it was only that word in isolation (without the rest) I wouldn't have bothered making the comment. Regardless of how it was born, I don't think it qualifies as anarchy now, especially with how it can be tracked and regulated (indirectly, i.e. it can be banned, transactions taxed, exchanges subpoena'd for transaction information, ledgers tracked, etc) by governments.

Some crypto can be potentially tracked by governments, but it's a lot harder to seize someone's wallet than it is to close their bank account. Having a non-state backed currency is a prerequisite to anarchy.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.coindesk.com/north-korea-st...

(AMP link because coindesk hid the article behind a fake 404 page)

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#196

Post by tor12 »

africanboy wrote: post #177
tor11 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The number of times such an activity would be useful to me is zero. what about sending money to someone far away? ever tried? or just living in a bubble using a single fiat to buy coffee your limited use argument is tiresome. you can not send money to anyone you want with fiat. most can not send money to you. you are not free

do you really believe that people never sent money abroad before bitcoins? my grandgranparent sent money back home to Italy from the US in 1912...

do you really believe that bitcoin or similar is not superior in this use case than whatever they did back then?

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#197

Post by solosoyokaze »

deeeeplearning wrote: post #182
solosoyokaze wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see Bitcoin as currency, it's a store of value. You're correct that there are better coins for currency.

Edit: Could have sworn your comment said BTC and not crypto?

BTC is the foundation of crypto, but other coins play an important role (i.e. high volume transactions). BTC is the value that powers the alt-coins.

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#198

Post by africanboy »

tor12 wrote: post #196
africanboy wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you really believe that people never sent money abroad before bitcoins? my grandgranparent sent money back home to Italy from the US in 1912...

do you really believe that bitcoin or similar is not superior in this use case than whatever they did back then?

yes, I do.

my grandgrandmother had no electricity, no running water, could not read, but could use that money.

now do the same with bitcoins.

anyway this sentence

> you can not send money to anyone you want with fiat

is not true.

I don't know what bubble you live in, but the opposite is true: you can't send bitcoins to anyone you want.

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#199

Post by tor12 »

africanboy wrote: post #198
tor12 wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you really believe that bitcoin or similar is not superior in this use case than whatever they did back then?

yes, I do. my grandgrandmother had no electricity, no running water, could not read, but could use that money. now do the same with bitcoins. anyway this sentence > you can not send money to anyone you want with fiat is not true. I don't know what bubble you live in, but the opposite is true: you can't send bitcoins to anyone you want.

it is easy to test this you know. send yourself something when abroad or from foreign bank. at the same time send some bitcoin. see what arrives first or at all.

> I don't know what bubble you live in, but the opposite is true: you can't send bitcoins to anyone you want.

the opposite to "you can not send money to anyone you want with fiat" is "you can send money to anyone you want with fiat". which is false. hence initial statement is true. there is no bubble here.

friendly advice. read more.

Re: Bitcoin and other PoW coins are an ESG nightmare

#200

Post by godlikeNoob »

NullPrefix wrote: post #183
dralley wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A single bitcoin transaction (amortized) uses as much electricity as an entire house uses (on average) in more than 2 days. This is like saying why should a massive agricultural project worry about saving water when your uncle Steve leaves the sink running while brushing his teeth. Or complaining about a splinter while impaled on a 2x4. The scale of the inefficiency is so large as to be difficult to truly comprehend.

>A single bitcoin transaction (amortized) uses as much electricity as an entire house uses (on average) in more than 2 days. That could be true, but how much energy does the finance world consumes through all the quantitative easings and other shenanigans? I doubt it's even possible to burn that worth of energy in electricity.

quantitative easing -> Needed to ward off a recession as seen fit by most of the economists ... Not saying it's efficient / needed, can't say anything for sure since I am a lowly dev and not a world class economist This whole concept of bitcoin having value just because it's finite is asinine ... The whole world used gold standard and there was a reason the US and other nations got rid of it after WWI. Comparing bitcoin's energy usage to traditional financial systems makes zero sense, mainly because traditional financial systems have a much bigger purpose. I'll never buy any goods or services with my bitcoin because of the upside potential and I'll never accept payments in bitcoin because of the downside risk.
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