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Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

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Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#91

Post by cmiller1 »

sneak wrote: post #20
Someone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they still be niche if they were competitive with LCDs in other aspects, most importantly color gamut and ability to show video (I think longevity and power usage already are competitive, if not more than so). So, why? Are they inherently more difficult or expensive to manufacture, do they use materials that are too rare?

The way e-ink works is quite different from an LCD. They didn't even get color until recently. Personally, I think the benefits of reflective reading surfaces (ie e-ink) over backlit reading surfaces (everything else) is massively overblown. I have an e-ink tablet now that they are >300ppi and it's nice to read on, but it's a novelty. Some people love 'em, but that hasn't stopped the iPad Pro from outselling all of t…

What about a hybrid display for portable devices. A transparent OLED panel sitting over an e-ink display. You could have the battery life and readability of e-ink and just turn on the front panel when you needed full color or fast refresh rates such as for video.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#92

Post by jmholla »

syats wrote: post #87
dec0dedab0de wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure one of the people who own one will chime in, but i think the whole device is hackable, you can get into a linux shell as root and do whatever you want.

Out of the box, the SaaS thingy is not really needed, you can just signup and use the device without ever logging in or downloading their mobile app. They're just kind enough to keep all your notes for you and thus, by default, need a bunch of battery power for the sync process.

You don't even need to sign up.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#93

Post by sgtnoodle »

minikites wrote: post #71
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

I agree and the people who are tying themselves into knots to justify using the r-word reminds of people who pointedly use the word "niggardly" instead of any number of synonyms just to get a rise out of the audience.

You just justified to yourself a reason to use an even more controversial word out of the blue in a contrived way. I hope you were being intentionally ironic.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#94

Post by sdenton4 »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #48
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

Think through the usage of a few other slurs. I think you'll find many of them are used both as a slur /and/ to describe some negative stereotype of the targeted group as it arises anywhere else. The 'generality' is just reinforcement of the stereotype, and doesn't make the slur acceptable.

Finally, the 'r-word' has been on the outs for /decades/ now. I tend to associate it with clueless teenagers - the same ones typically spewing lots of homophobic slurs - and anyone I hear using it will typically get a BIG discount in my perception.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#95

Post by chrismorgan »

toyg wrote: post #72

Beyond patent issues, TBH I would not have a problem paying for a reMarkable this very day, if I could be 10000% sure that there wasn't some shitty SaaS service involved in using it at any stage. These days, whenever a new gadget comes up, my first reaction has become "I wonder how they try to screw you into a SaaS later".

You can easily disable software updates, and don’t need to set up the cloud sync service. The device is completely usable with no internet connection, and you get ssh access that you can do what you like with, and they provide a Qt SDK to build anything against. But I do wish xochitl (their UI) was open source.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#96

Post by habitue »

toyg wrote: post #72

Beyond patent issues, TBH I would not have a problem paying for a reMarkable this very day, if I could be 10000% sure that there wasn't some shitty SaaS service involved in using it at any stage. These days, whenever a new gadget comes up, my first reaction has become "I wonder how they try to screw you into a SaaS later".

I have one, and the cloud service is actually completely replaceable if you want. Since the device is running linux you can compile to arm7 and just run a sync cron to whatever server you want if you don't like their cloud service.

Edit: I think people may have the impression this is like Android where the process is "ok, first reboot, hold all the buttons but not that one button and then unlock root, then flash the rom with a custom version of the OS from this sketchy site and ... bam! You're in control now"

Actually it's like: sign into wifi on the device. It's now running an ssh server available on your network. The password to log in as root is in the settings. You can ssh in right then and write a bash script to do what you want.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#97

Post by donarb »

brassattax wrote: post #13

I think e-ink screens would be great for musicians too! A lot of musicians are using iPad Pro, but I personally would rather have a dual screen e-ink device like this (for better battery life, better readability): https://www.gvidomusic.com/ ($1600!!) First company to build something like this and bring the cost down to something a bit more reasonable will get my business.

Do e-ink tablets even have music-worthy sound capability? Even at $1600 Gvido has no speaker!??

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#98

Post by mariusor »

daniellarusso wrote: post #5

Economies of scale?

I'm pretty sure you don't need a question mark.

reMarkable is a small company that is now shipping their second device. Apple has shipped iPads for 11 years, even if they updated the hardware at every step, they still can rely on a well established supply chain.

It feels off-putting to see people get into this entitled mindset that requires that small companies price their products in the same low ranges as well established ones can afford to - either through unethical production practices, or, like you mentioned, economy of scale - or they're not worth it.

PS. Sorry to rant at OP in your replies.

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#99

Post by fortran77 »

Naga wrote: post #18
RicoElectrico wrote: post #3

The company holding patents for e-ink is literally retarded, as if they don't want it to succeed. I'm not making this up. [1] Sure e-ink has its flaws, but wouldn't it be better to have a smaller slice of a much larger cake? OLED is patent encumbered too, there's also a patent holding company, despite that you can buy smallest modules for less than $2 on AliExpress. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22829798

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

This is why Hacker News is a big joke among real tech leaders. Literally.

https://www.reddit.com/r/LOLHackerNews/

Re: Ask HN: Why are e-ink note-taking devices so expensive compared to iPads?

#100

Post by 6gvONxR4sf7o »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #48
Naga wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely with your points, and I'm sorry be that guy, but "literally retarded" is offensive language and is frankly below the level of discourse of HN. I'm not one to be the PC police but really, come on. You can make your argument without resulting to slurs like that. https://www.verywellfamily.com/what-is-the-r-word-3105651

Don't necessarily disagree with you, but seeing as "the r word" is no longer used to refer to mentally disabled people it seems a little late to be campaigning to end its use as a pejorative _now_. If anything, these efforts should be directed towards ending the use of "autism" in a pejorative context, as if that trend isn't stopped then that term is up next on the euphemism treadmill. I also wonder if perhaps these…

I wonder if this is an age thing? Up until very very recently, “retarded” did mean what we now refer to as mentally disabled. It was a slur that people pushed back on just like the words that preceded it, but the pejorative figurative use won out. But it’s too recent to say that’s definitively not what it means anymore. It’s hard to date these kinds of things, but the first document I found was the social security administration changing their terminology in just 2013.

It seems pretty clear cut that while maybe “retarded” has a different meaning for younger people than it does for my age group, the phrase “literally retarded,” is clearly contrasting against the figurative use. It seems clear that it’s pointing right back to mental disability, even if “literally” is figurative here.

Maybe the lesson here is that for quickly shifting words that mean something different to different generations, sensitivity is a worthwhile thing in a forum whose users span a few generations.

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