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Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

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Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#281
post #108
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like this is exactly the kind of thing that a government is useful for. Why not have more publicly funded research institutions that employ them, and put them to work on useful research without having them worry about grant considerations, teaching classes, or the publishing treadmill?

We do .. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federally_funded_research_and_...

Unless you are in a user facility, national labs are even more brutal than academia. Because your entire salary is soft-money funded, and AFAIK you have to bring in several multiples (~4) of your salary in grants to maintain your position.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#282
post #11

> universities ... expect faculty in the medical schools to pay their own way with either clinical work or external research funding. This puts tremendous financial pressure on eager young medical researchers, sometimes leading them not to the projects that are most needed or that they are most passionate about, but to the projects that will get them funding. Sometimes it feels as if the current system we have in the…

Randomization.

This is the only strategy, in my opinion, that makes sense. Every year, a certain fraction of the grant money from NSF/NIH/DOE will be awarded randomly, based on a lottery. Your name is automatically entered into the lottery if you submitted a grant proposal. The money per random grant will be constant; there will be no strings attached to the budget regarding scientific direction.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#283

I am in the middle of this right now; new professor at top-10 university in CS (with a PhD in biomedicine). Funding science is a frequently-debated topic and everyone is aware there is a problem, but one part is that in the US we have combined four different organizations: federally-funded scientific research organizations, post-highschool education, vocational training (doctors, lawyers), and professional sports. Pe…

National Lab scientist here. Too much of a revolving door has led to most National Labs becoming like universities now. LBNL is now effectively a UC Berkeley division (check it, their Lab directors, associate directors, division directors are all Berkeley faculty).

Secondly, DOE now is obsessed with the same productivity metrics, which flows down from the Congress. Dollars per paper has become the metric - which means you are trying to tighten the productivity screws all the time.

For example, I had five papers last year and was just barely FC (fully contributing) and narrowly escaped getting written up for unsatisfactory productivity. Even worse, unlike tenure, national lab scientist positions are entirely soft money funded. This state of affairs results in a situation where you need to be bringing in over half a million dollars per year to pay your salary+overhead if you are a famous person.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#284

It's pretty easy to see who is a top star (because they have continuous highest-quality output), and who will never deliver anything worthwhile. The trouble is the continuum between those two extremes. This domain is dominated by politics, endless grant applications, bureaucracy. Nobody can really tell where you belong in this continuum, maybe not even you yourself. And I also don't believe that academia is the best…

Is Yi Cui with an h-index close to 200 the best scientist then? Or Pulickel Ajayan?

I worked with samples grown from both of them, so my opinion on them is mixed. They are drive-by shooters; they identify a hot area, publish some crappy but early papers on the topic and move on to the next hot trend. Both of them have very little to zero sustained contributions to the field.

And this is, by the way, the case for most h-index superstars. Fundamental contributions are often sustained contributions over the years to a field, and the honest answer is that we can measure that only years after the science has been published.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#285
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is insulting and just flat out unrealistic. If you've had this experience, great, but what you're describing is very far from the norm.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-survey-reveals-85-all-job... Working somewhere for decades and not being in touch with a single colleague is not normal. Imagine hearing "I didn't keep in touch with a single person from my 16 years of primary + university education after school ended."

I don't keep in touch with anyone I went to school with, no. I also don't keep in touch with many past colleagues beyond a yearly checkup, if at all.

Sorry, but your assumption about how the world works / should work isn't applicable to everyone. Some people don't have the capacity to do so.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hazardous material does not become hazardous waste if you can legitimately sell/ship it off the site as a worthwhile product instead. Otherwise if you need to truly discard excess (even prime chemical assets then become a liability) you need to not only usually pay, but bump your paperwork and liability up from merely dangerous goods to full waste documentation requirements. This is what I meant. For a small organi…

Yup, I'm moving toward "retiring" from my employer and doing without a lab for a bit as I decide to get back into more action than the employer can muster. I'll be able to maintain a good relationship with them and if I do go back into private practice nearby they will be able to handle the few liters a month I would expect to generate single-handedly. Which is a drop in the bucket of their few drums, which are a dro…

> When it comes to an actual university operation though, about half the time when I check out a chem department's equipment it looks like they sure could use some help from someone with more than just a few years on the gear, and often so underequipped I could bring in & restore the surplus electonics to double their capabilities within a year not much differently than at a commercial lab. Also without a PhD there are actually some long-term employment or career positions already funded which could be conformed creatively to this effort. If I did this I would want to hit successive universities since I am very fast, but I am mainly retiring from employment more so than my present employer's facility which I expect to routinely continue to visit as long as I am in their areas, to our mutual advantage.

This is basically my part time job now, I help maintain a university lab including things like repairing ancient equipment, training grad student TAs, helping the lecturers plan and run their experiments, and then just random grad students and professors drop in for advice and help. It's pretty fun.

What I don't do is take advantage of the fact that I have a chem lab attached for any personal work, I've never actually thought to ask. I have asked about setting up a catalyst test reactor lab to collaborate with the college of computing to see if we can build a testing lab for anyone creating new catalysts to analyze the results and invent new types. There were too many professors with a vested interest in doing that kind of project so they had no interest in supporting it.

It was very disappointing to see, I'd have been happy to run a test facility for all the professors to work with as a shared experimental facility but they all wanted to be the one to get the papers first. The minor consideration to me of being able to do some of my own research projects with the setup and a salary is all I'd have wanted out of it, I love mentoring students and would have loved to provide deep expertise to students working on such projects...

Could have made three departments able to produce high quality research in a field that no one here seems to actually be good at (i.e. traditional heterogeneous catalysts) with ChemE, MatSci, and CompSci all benefiting from the ability to generate large reliable datasets of how new catalytic materials behave in traditional chemical reactors. So cheap to set up too... just such a shame that I cannot do such a project at the place I work despite having been the director of chemical process development and specifically catalyst development at previous jobs. Ostensibly because professors are already doing it in their labs, but like, why would you not take advantage of expertise like mine to make these projects work?

So bizarre but I just don't have the stamina to push them on it, I probably literally just have to switch job titles for them to even notice that I am in fact a world class expert on catalysts and chemical processing. Instead I'm repairing oscilloscopes which is super fun but I sure miss doing actual research that matters.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#287
post #284

It's pretty easy to see who is a top star (because they have continuous highest-quality output), and who will never deliver anything worthwhile. The trouble is the continuum between those two extremes. This domain is dominated by politics, endless grant applications, bureaucracy. Nobody can really tell where you belong in this continuum, maybe not even you yourself. And I also don't believe that academia is the best…

Is Yi Cui with an h-index close to 200 the best scientist then? Or Pulickel Ajayan? I worked with samples grown from both of them, so my opinion on them is mixed. They are drive-by shooters; they identify a hot area, publish some crappy but early papers on the topic and move on to the next hot trend. Both of them have very little to zero sustained contributions to the field. And this is, by the way, the case for most…

I have no clue about your field, so I don't know. But it seems to me it is obvious to you if you want to include them in your list of top stars.

Note also that I never said anything about h-index being a measure for highest-quality. Only experts in a field can say what obvious highest-quality work is.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm working to create a community model with a communal research lab. It's meant to meet my needs as a researcher while also removing pressures/norms from capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism. What do you want to research and what's in your way?

That's great! Honestly I'm still navigating more pressing existential crises (like which country and then city to set roots in, if I even have a choice) but after that the plan is to embrace fields that are amenable for cheap amateur experimentation. In that regards, I have some connectomics projects with c. Elegans in mind, followed by evolution with basic cell lines. Depending on answers to aforementioned crises I…

Here's what I want: a lab to experiment with these findings (https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-018-0078-7)in a 3D colonies from the perspective of encoding various structures from human culture (particularly the community housing the lab) and seeing how the microbes address different perturbations. And then remodeling the community's culture based on whatever findings are uncovered to test the relationship between human and microbial cultures. Or remodel the cultural blueprint within some communal space to see how it works with the outside world. Or...I don't know. There are so many ways to play with culture in this way.

We're tackling the question of where to live, too. I find it useful to identify my values & then to use that to filter my options. Choosing based on availability of resources tends to lead to all kinds of blindspots in my experience. We're also trying to figure out how the community model can work without moving and what the process looks like for building it out where anyone is. The approach I'm going for right now is to identify the exact spaces and ways of relating to them I want, creating an absurdly long organization name with all those words in the name, and a mission of "evolve the name" or something similar, short, and simple.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#289
post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/new-survey-reveals-85-all-job... Working somewhere for decades and not being in touch with a single colleague is not normal. Imagine hearing "I didn't keep in touch with a single person from my 16 years of primary + university education after school ended."

I don't keep in touch with anyone I went to school with, no. I also don't keep in touch with many past colleagues beyond a yearly checkup, if at all. Sorry, but your assumption about how the world works / should work isn't applicable to everyone. Some people don't have the capacity to do so.

Some people can't see color either, and unfortunately their life is more difficult because of it. But seeing color is the expected outcome for most, and the world is built with that assumption in mind.

If you aren't making connections you are unfortunately at a severe disadvantage. To the extent you're self-aware to realize this, you may be able to correct it. Otherwise, like anything else, you learn to adapt.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#290
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I joined one called "BioCurious"[1] in the SF Bay area to work on a project making a fluorescence microscope. The project was advertised on Meetup.com which is how I found it, and there were other similar projects that met up weekly. If you paid a membership fee though you got 24/hr access so I met a person there outside of academia who was using the lab's resources to continue the neuroscience research he had done f…

Thanks for sharing. I'm in Baltimore, too. Please post these places if you have a chance. Would love to check them out when possible. Searching the web, I have found https://bugssonline.org/ .

Hey, sorry for taking so long to respond to this.

When I moved here I made a list of hacker spaces that were both general and biology-focused. I thought I had found more that were focused on bio but unfortunately I think you're right, for biosciences it's only Baltimore Underground Science Space.

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