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Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

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Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#151

Post by phjesusthatguy3 »

ahepp wrote: post #16

>As journalists, we all view this as a horrifying assault on the public’s right to know, and on our own status as brave defenders of the public good. And that is all true, for what it’s worth. But this is about power. We need to take some back, lest the rich and powerful run away from one of the last forces restraining them. It's interesting that they seem to consider themselves the only ones with pure hearts. I'm no…

It's interesting that you read that article and came up with the idea that they seem to consider themselves the only ones with pure hearts.

I'm not sure why I should assume some random HNer -- who can read that article and come up with the phrase "they seem to consider themselves the only ones with pure hearts" when that wasn't what I read at all -- has any sort of reading comprehension. If anything, TFA is proof that your disdain of Big Media is working. It's specifically spelling out that whats-his-face running that car company already has a t-shirt launcher that reaches the entire planet, so there's no reason to talk to anyone he doesn't want to.

I do appreciate the role of anonymous users of an anonymous chat group defending the honor of one of the richest men on the planet. But man, it's not a positive appreciation.

I don't know how you could write six strawman sentences and still think you had something to say.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#152

Post by apmcduck »

Journalist tears are delicious.

"When the full flowering of the social media age turns even the most prestigious paper into just another midsize Facebook page struggling to catch up to the reach of Dan Bongino?"

Good. That's a source of our strength. And It's not going to stop.

Any media company is just another corporation with self-interest that doesn't align with the public good.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#153

Post by apmcduck »

nexthash wrote: post #57

A lot of people here are arguing that mainstream media had it coming for them because of bias, arrogance, pushing an agenda, etc. But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth? For all of the media's problems and imperfections, they have acted as a quasi-independent institution holding other powerful institutions and individuals in society in check. They have focused popular attention where it wa…

Powerful people will still be held in check by public opinion, market forces, and other powerful people. We don't need a centralized MiniTrue gatekeeping with its own agenda.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#154

Post by apmcduck »

rayiner wrote: post #93
qwantim1 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scary part of journalism is when it’s about activism vs. the truth. Activists can lie if the truth isn’t important. Lying for ratings, though, is also very bad. Activists lying for both activist causes and ratings is extremely bad.

Activists, at the very least, exaggerate wildly. I’m a huge fan of and regular donor to the ACLU. But I had to stop reading their newsletter because Anthony Romano (or whoever writes these newsletter updates in his name) has a loose relationship with the truth. I would read about some criminal case they were involved in, and work up the intended frothy outrage. Then I’d read the Wikipedia article on it, and find out…

The ACLU went off the deep end sometime in the last 20 years.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#155

Post by tim44 »

This article waxing poetic about the bastion that is journalism, taking down the big guy. Oh please. What we've seen is that journalists are not allowed to take on certain topics or the big guy, unless it's an enemy of their own big guy. They act more as media relations than journalists. And mainstream media has really lost its mind and jumped the shark over the last few years. Might be harder than they think to recover reputations.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#156

Post by hesarenu »

rayiner wrote: post #145
hesarenu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are if and buts. I am more interested if he wrote similar for Churchill. As they say winners write the history.

And if Hitler had been the winner?

Well what if East India Company did not come to India, what if Turks did not invade India it would go on. Anyway Churchill's polices led to famine, which could have been avoided. His attitude towards India can be considered as racist.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#157

Post by ardy42 »

apmcduck wrote: post #153
nexthash wrote: post #57

A lot of people here are arguing that mainstream media had it coming for them because of bias, arrogance, pushing an agenda, etc. But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth? For all of the media's problems and imperfections, they have acted as a quasi-independent institution holding other powerful institutions and individuals in society in check. They have focused popular attention where it wa…

Powerful people will still be held in check by public opinion, market forces, and other powerful people. We don't need a centralized MiniTrue gatekeeping with its own agenda.

> Powerful people will still be held in check by public opinion, market forces, and other powerful people. We don't need a centralized MiniTrue gatekeeping with its own agenda.

Actually, in the absence of the professional journalism, they'll be "held in check" by things like QAnon and "Stop the Steal," fueled by things like partisan talk radio.

The media isn't a "centralized MiniTrue" (I mean that's obvious), it's just industry where people with the profession of gathering and disseminating information work. It's taken time to develop professional standards, and if it's destroyed, the main thing that would be destroyed are those standards.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#158

Post by AnimalMuppet »

Thlom wrote: post #138
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Uncovering new facts": yes, that's reporting. We need that. But there are actually too many facts. People can't read all the facts. We also need "analysis" - putting the facts in perspective, deciding which ones are important, and why. But, and here's where the press has failed spectacularly, we need that analysis to be unbiased, not pushing an agenda, but actually letting the data drive the narrative.

Ah, the holy grail, unbiased journalistic analysis! Which unfortunately is impossible.

I think it actually is impossible, in any absolute sense. But it's possible to do better than they're doing...

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#159

Post by loveistheanswer »

nexthash wrote: post #63
analog31 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>> But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth? A strongman. An idea that I attribute to Imre Lakatos, is that if you strip people of the ability to debate and discern facts, you create a power vacuum that can only be filled by those who can act in the absence of debate and facts, notably thugs and tyrants. I believe this is the actual motivation behind the "war on truth" and the flood of misi…

This is my biggest fear about the media. If they don't come clean and reclaim their integrity (this goes for both left and right outlets), the public will reject them. Discourse will move to blogs, podcasts, private networks, etc. In the process, the laws and protections for journalism will be weathered and may be abolished altogether (who needs those pompous journalists, right?). Then we'll be no better than a propa…

>social media platforms to be choked with regulation until they start preventing manipulative shit from spreading.

Manipulation is an unsolved human problem as old as humanity.

The core business model of social media is fundamentally based on manipulation.

Asking social media corporations to protect us from manipulation is salmon asking grizzly bears to protect them from getting eaten. It's contrary to their fundamental nature.

Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power

#160

Post by nxmnxm99 »

ahepp wrote: post #16

>As journalists, we all view this as a horrifying assault on the public’s right to know, and on our own status as brave defenders of the public good. And that is all true, for what it’s worth. But this is about power. We need to take some back, lest the rich and powerful run away from one of the last forces restraining them. It's interesting that they seem to consider themselves the only ones with pure hearts. I'm no…

Yeah it's a cute story but it's off the mark because more often than not nowadays the mainstream journalists ARE the rich and powerful.

If you want to see journalists actually performing the role of being checks on power, go to the third world. Bankrolled journalism isn't true journalism.

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