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Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

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Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#51

Post by sargun »

harikb wrote: post #44
ac29 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Sweden, the employers are responsible for reporting your income and banks your profits on sales of stocks, funds, and real estate. This is true in the US as well, but the tax authority (IRS) gives you nothing but blank forms to fill out yourself.

Not just that it is blank, it is expected that certain things that you fill match what they already know. It is more like a test, where you get nothing if you answer correctly and penalty if you make a mistake. Note: IRS does provide a way to download what they know as a pdf (what banks reported, for example), so one can get some help with the "test"

Where can you download that?

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#52

Post by benhurmarcel »

vages wrote: post #15

Related fun (and sad) fact: In Norway, the tax submission forms are online and so user friendly that you don't need a tax filing program like this. Edit: Here is a link to an explanation for the form, in English, which was revamped in 2020: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/tax-return/tax-r... The submission form is essentially a wizard that asks you questions related to your situation and your past year. D…

You'd be hard-pressed to find any other developed country than the US where it's not similar to that.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#53

Post by kuyan »

m463 wrote: post #17
vages wrote: post #15

Related fun (and sad) fact: In Norway, the tax submission forms are online and so user friendly that you don't need a tax filing program like this. Edit: Here is a link to an explanation for the form, in English, which was revamped in 2020: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/tax-return/tax-r... The submission form is essentially a wizard that asks you questions related to your situation and your past year. D…

the good reason: some people are philosophically opposed to easy taxes - people should be painfully aware of the money they are giving to the government. (sort of like folks who have VAT complain about advertised US retail prices which don't include tax) The bad reason: Lobbying by intuit and parties to prevent easy tax preparation. Their ROI on regulatory capture is very very good.

> some people are philosophically opposed to easy taxes

I listened to a couple of episodes of Planet Money a while back that others might find relevant. They address how some state / local governments raise money in regions where opposition to taxes is high.

The Liberty City (https://www.npr.org/2019/10/18/771371881/episode-945-the-lib...)

Fine and Punishment (https://www.npr.org/2021/02/12/967260423/planet-money-fine-a...)

Essentially, the subjects of each episode use the justice system to raise funds from speeding tickets, court / prison fees, etc.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#54

Post by vector_spaces »

sargun wrote: post #51
harikb wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not just that it is blank, it is expected that certain things that you fill match what they already know. It is more like a test, where you get nothing if you answer correctly and penalty if you make a mistake. Note: IRS does provide a way to download what they know as a pdf (what banks reported, for example), so one can get some help with the "test"

Where can you download that?

Log into irs.gov and download your transcripts. You can also call them and request they be faxed or mailed to you. But they are only usually available by about July of the tax year, so only useful if you're filing late

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#55

Post by vages »

benhurmarcel wrote: post #52
vages wrote: post #15

Related fun (and sad) fact: In Norway, the tax submission forms are online and so user friendly that you don't need a tax filing program like this. Edit: Here is a link to an explanation for the form, in English, which was revamped in 2020: https://www.skatteetaten.no/en/person/taxes/tax-return/tax-r... The submission form is essentially a wizard that asks you questions related to your situation and your past year. D…

You'd be hard-pressed to find any other developed country than the US where it's not similar to that.

Great! Do you have an example of a form from your home country (assuming you don't live in the US)?

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#56

Post by vages »

schoen wrote: post #46
m463 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the good reason: some people are philosophically opposed to easy taxes - people should be painfully aware of the money they are giving to the government. (sort of like folks who have VAT complain about advertised US retail prices which don't include tax) The bad reason: Lobbying by intuit and parties to prevent easy tax preparation. Their ROI on regulatory capture is very very good.

I think something that would help to make people much more aware of their tax rates is getting rid of automated W-2 deductions, so that virtually all taxpayers would individually have to pay money out of their own bank accounts. Having the filing process be complicated or tedious doesn't really do much to give people a more accurate perspective on the financial burden of taxation to them. If you could get your tax fo…

Same thing for me! "That's a third of my salary!"[1] But after getting a master's degree for free from the government and looking forward to free health care, kindergarten and cheap public transport for the rest of my life, I can't really complain.

[1] Note that the Norwegian tax system is progressive, so median wage earners don't pay as much as that.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#57

Post by kristopolous »

kuyan wrote: post #48
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any good reason this isn't the case in America yet?

Broadly, a couple reasons: - Tax prep companies like Intuit have a vested interest in keeping tax prep difficult. - Grover Norquist (Americans for Tax Reform) believes that making filing taxes easier will make people more okay with paying taxes, and as a result, many conservative policymakers won't bite. (It's slightly more complicated than this, but I believe this assessment to be accurate.) Here's a Planet Money po…

The second one is new to me. It's really fascinating how they choose a set of policies and work hard to construct a reality that supports the policy positions. It strikes me as so backwards.

It's tinfoil hat, but my only conclusion is the actual reasons for the policy are so incredibly unpopular that they invent these realities to obscure them.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#58

Post by renewiltord »

jfc_taxman wrote: post #40

imagine submitting your social security number and sensitive PII to a website that was created during covid 2020-05-10T08:44:50Z which doesn't have a contact us page even if it is all in browser. is this a business? do they have insurance?

Haha, I am fully convinced now that lots of HNers actually don't know how to use Github. Are you guys not software engineers? Use the source code, my dude. Read it if you want. Run the program if you want. It doesn't even take that long.

And like, if you're even halfway competent you know how to run the program without Internet access.

Re: Show HN: ustaxes.org – open-source tax filing webapp

#59

Post by MuffinFlavored »

Hamuko wrote: post #39
MuffinFlavored wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any good reason this isn't the case in America yet?

A good reason? No. A reason? Lobbying.

Why are other countries not victim to lobbying in the way America is?

Is it just a double-edged sword that we have to thank for making us (one of) the economic powerhouse(s) of the world? At the same time, it feels like it to blame on why we can't have anything nice when compared to European countries. Am I out of line/uneducated on this matter? I very well could be.

I hate just chalking the root of problems up to some massive unbeatable evil force (like lobbying).

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