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The Kotlin Foundation

kotlinlang.org

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Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#231

Post by adsharma »

pjmlp wrote: post #228
adsharma wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant KMM (Kotlin Mobile multi-platform). Not aware of write once and run twice (iOS and Android) apps in these languages. Jetbrains recently removed working Linux support for KMM as a host platform.

Neither does KMM, as it only allows for business logic and Kotlin/Native has an incompatible memory model with the JVM ecosystem, requiring code to be explicitly written for Kotlin/Native.

Both iOS and Android use garbage collected memory. It's just that iOS uses simpler garbage collection in the form of ARC. KMM code runs fine on JVM right? If you start from JVM code, yeah it needs to be rewritten, but that's not the premise.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#232

Post by pjmlp »

adsharma wrote: post #231
pjmlp wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither does KMM, as it only allows for business logic and Kotlin/Native has an incompatible memory model with the JVM ecosystem, requiring code to be explicitly written for Kotlin/Native.

Both iOS and Android use garbage collected memory. It's just that iOS uses simpler garbage collection in the form of ARC. KMM code runs fine on JVM right? If you start from JVM code, yeah it needs to be rewritten, but that's not the premise.

It is wasn't a problem, this blog post would not have been written.

https://blog.jetbrains.com/kotlin/2020/07/kotlin-native-memo...

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#233

Post by kag0 »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #189
melling wrote: post #31

Interesting to watch Kotlin develop. It came in and filled the niche that i always thought Scala would fill. I’ve been doing mostly Swift for the past several years, and i love it. Scala 3 looks interesting but it seems to be moving slowly. I look forward to having another Java option if I ever get back to that platform. Java was cool in 1998 but after Swift, I’ll need something nicer on the JVM

I like Scala but it's pretty complicated. I'm hoping Kotlin might be just approachable enough for the masses that we can drop the boilerplate that Java still requires.

Kotlin is like Scala (more ergonomic and with immutable collections in the standard library), but without implicits and with Java's weaker type system. It also has more compilation targets than Java (js, llvm, jvm).

Java is already taking hints from Scala and quickly adding Scala inspired features, which is making it similar to Kotlin. I think unless Kotlin innovates and does something not already in Scala, it will likely run into the issue of being too similar to Java ~20.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#234

Post by jdmichal »

balfirevic wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How did Java (as opposed to JVM) Well that’s the point - they solved it in the JVM not as a kludge of bytecode.

Well, once that happened Kotlin also gets the solution. It's rude and unfair to call out a language as "solving the problems with kludges" when they literally could not have done anything better.

Yet the JVM had `invokedynamic` before it had any use in Java, specifically to support more dynamic languages.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#235

Post by jsiepkes »

vips7L wrote: post #221
balfirevic wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"As opposed to JVM" You don't have to convince me that green threads are far superior to async-await - I already believe that. But that's not something Kotlin (nor Java, on the language level) could have solved.

You're correct but you're forgetting that the jvm IS java. When it isn't trivial to solve at the language level they have the power to change the runtime.

And on top of that Kotlin is now basically stuck with async-await forever. Removing async-await from the language and designing a more superior model the JVM now allows for with Loom is probably not going to happen. Adding a new model based on the new possibilities Loom provides will probably cause too much fragmentation (unless they come up with some really clever interop) so thats also unlikely.

Kotlin could be stuck here with a inferior co-routine model; Handicap of a headstart. Tough of course time will have to tell if the model Loom introduces in Java is going to be as great as it sounds.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#236

Post by kaba0 »

blandflakes wrote: post #225
fulafel wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clojure exists outside the JVM as well (ClojureScript, Babashka, ClojureCLR)

It does, but not in the same platform-antagonistic way. Clojure instead embraces many different platforms and runs on them through various dialects; Kotlin wants to become a platform.

Scala preceded it with both Scala Native and ScalaJS.
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