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Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

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Re: Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

#161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US Navy was actively fighting the Kriegsmarine on the North Atlantic as early as late 1940, and even before that, US had started providing armaments to bolster the British war effort, and took over the defense of various British holdings to free up forces. They also provided entire cohesive units of equipped volunteers to fight against the Germans on the British Isles, and the Japanese in China. None of these act…

But what could the USAAF realistically have been able to do in 1940 to help the British?

Exactly. From where could the USAF operated? I agree that the Americans would liked to have helped resist an invasion but at that time I don't think they would have had the required platform.

Re: Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

#162
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the USA are doing smashingly well against their current crop asymmetrical opponents. Wikipedia has the GWOT American casualties count (military and civilian) at 8800 ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_terror#Casualties ). Far more American citizens than that died the last time we faced a serious asymmetrical opponent ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_Wars ).

I would consider Vietnam largely asymmetrical. Wouldn't you?

The North Vietnamese had a uniformed, regimented army. Al-Qaeda and the American Indians did/do not.

Re: Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

#163
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. "Real-world data show that some high-quality GPS SPS receivers currently attain better than 3 meter horizontal position accuracy" [1], and military GPS is even more accurate. [1] http://www.pnt.gov/public/faq.shtml#accurate

Umm, that back in the time the missile silos were planned, there was no GPS? That combined with the relatively low-yield warheads meant that hardened silos were a viable weapon - they were likely to survive a first-strike. Thanks for the downvote tho'.

I thought you were referring to the part where he talked about "modern military GPS."

And I'm not sure why you're so interested in downvotes, but it wasn't me.

Re: Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

#164
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Besides, even if you're right, the CSA still would never have allowed former slaves equal rights. Was the civil war a better outcome? After the war former slaves were still agricultural workers, working long days in the fields. Only now they faced random violence and Jim Crow laws. Lynchings occurred well into the 20th century. Oh and the cost of the civil war was 600,000 lives, unbelievable destruction and a compl…

> After the war former slaves were still agricultural workers, working long days in the fields. Only now they faced random violence and Jim Crow laws. This happened because Reconstruction was stopped too early. There was a period, from 1865 to 1876, where blacks were in state-level political office across the South, there were no Jim Crow laws, and the Klan was killed off by focused Federal action. Secondly, slavery…

> No. No. No. No.

Just so you know, I imagined you yelling this and slamming your shoe on the table.

> We fought this war and as it turns out, self-determination has to include everyone

What about the first civil war? The one between Great Britain and its american colonies? At the time the colonies had slavery and GB eliminated the slave trade in 1807 and all slavery in 1833. Why were the slave-holding american colonies justified in rebelling in 1775 but a different group of slave-holding americans not justified in rebelling in 1861? Was that self-determination for all?

How did the Second Civil war ensure self-determination for everyone? The fact is that it did not. Many blacks in the south were denied the right to vote for decades through a variety of tactics including literacy/law tests and threats of outright violence.

> After all, can't slaves work in assembly lines?

It's way cheaper to employ people for industrial work than it is to enslave them. Slaves are expensive and are a major capital investment, with significant risk of loss if they become injured or killed on the job. With employees you just replace them when they cannot work and you do not have to invest capital in buying them.

If you believe that the US invaded the south to free the slaves, the only reasonable conclusion is that they failed, at an enormous cost of lives, liberty, and property.

Re: Battleships: a ridiculous but awesome idea

#165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Preserving slavery was so ingrained in the Southern mindset that I feel fairly certain the plantation owners would have gone through a certain amount of economic dislocation if that meant keeping the slaves and the social system built on slaves." Yes, and that's OK. Free men with tractors were about to tear out the foundations of slavery. We know that slavery was economically infeasible by 1920, and that's with a de…

> Free men with tractors were about to tear out the foundations of slavery. Slaves can build tractors. > We know that slavery was economically infeasible by 1920 This was a generation after it was abolished and the South had had to do something else. It's my contention that had the South been able to hang on to slavery, it would have found ways to work it into niches it never filled in the real world. Assembly line l…

> Slaves can build tractors.

I doubt they can do it well. Machinery is hard enough for enthusiastic people who are being showered in money.

> It's my contention that had the South been able to hang on to slavery, it would have found ways to work it into niches it never filled in the real world.

Perhaps. My experience is that skilled industrial jobs are hard. Even in the time of Henry Ford, high wages had to be paid to attract good enough people. If slaves could get the job done, then auto workers at minimum wage could do it, which seems absurd to me.

> In a Christian nation, slavery either doesn't exist or is infinitely gentler than what actually occurred.

Southern slaves were not treated nicely (slavery, duh), but they were treated well in comparison to many other examples of slavery. Elderly, worn-out slaves were a reasonably common sight, despite the fact that their economic output was near zero. Slaves were given the very important job of child care (creating the Southern accent in the process), which is not a job given to a sullen, mistreated drudge. Compare this to the Arabs, who use slaves completely up and plow the bodies under as fertilizer. (See Dubai for a modern example.)

> This is an interesting idea. Who argues that?

TVA, Oak Ridge, Huntsville, and so forth. Huge amounts of resources were poured into creating technology projects from scratch. By the time of Apollo, Southern senators were good at bringing home the money and economic development.

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