I saw this title and I figured, good point, highest level in the world of journalism is about raw power, hardly about any truth. Then I clicked and read a few lines, wow, completely turned around, it's actually saying that powerful people don't need journalism, and it's bitching about being dumpped... Not a minute of self-reflection. what kind of irony is this? I have to say, well deserved...
Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
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Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#52> As journalists, we all view this as a horrifying assault on the public’s right to know, and on our own status as brave defenders of the public good. And that is all true, for what it’s worth. But this is about power. We need to take some back, lest the rich and powerful run away from one of the last forces restraining them. I don't want the same arrogant, self-unaware journalist that pushes pernicious narratives to…
Since you’re defaming Hamilton Nolan from a position of anonymity, be specific. Who did he dox?
This is a total lie. And it’s the top rated comment. And you have the gall to complain about the press. dang does nothing. The community upvotes you. You hold yourself to not ONE TENTH of the standard you hold the news media you so despise. Your comments are as buggy as your industry’s infamously shitty software.
You are a vile liar.
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#53Where does one go to just get information these days without having to get it from someone on a crusade? Local papers seem a lot better in this regard, but they don't cover national and international content.
The Economist
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#54> As journalists, we all view this as a horrifying assault on the public’s right to know, and on our own status as brave defenders of the public good. And that is all true, for what it’s worth. But this is about power. We need to take some back, lest the rich and powerful run away from one of the last forces restraining them. I don't want the same arrogant, self-unaware journalist that pushes pernicious narratives to…
I’d encourage some HN commenters to do the same, funnily enough
Narratives can be dangerous, pernicious or not. For example, on every article about a big tech company, regardless of the facts at play, people will happily comment why they think it contributes to their narrative of that big company trying to grab power. I’m frustrated more when journalists do it, though, because they have more reach.
For example: the WhatsApp privacy policy change that happened recently was grossly misreported. The actual change to share data between the companies happened years ago.
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd suggest to read Hunter S. Thompson's obituary on Nixon https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-... "It was all gibberish, of course. Nixon was no more a Saint than he was a Great President. He was more like Sammy Glick than Winston Churchill. He was a cheap crook and a merciless war criminal who bombed more people to death in Laos and Cambodia than the U.S. Army lost in all of World War II, an…
I love that obit because it's so funny. But to take it seriously? To look for guidance there, from Hunter S. Thompson? Bad idea. > Facts you can find on Wikipedia or in the phone book This is the problem. For the most part, journalists are using the same facts everyone has access to (from wikipedia, google searches, or...twitter). So why do we need journalists? To tell us what to think about the facts? To the extent…
"Uncovering new facts": yes, that's reporting. We need that.
But there are actually too many facts. People can't read all the facts. We also need "analysis" - putting the facts in perspective, deciding which ones are important, and why. But, and here's where the press has failed spectacularly, we need that analysis to be unbiased, not pushing an agenda, but actually letting the data drive the narrative.
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#56>> They felt that way because papers like the Post could offer the carrot of great exposure to those who needed it, but also, always, the stick of negative coverage to those who spurned them. There is nothing devious or ignoble about this; a powerful press, for all its flaws, is good for democracy No, doing hit pieces on anyone is a flagrant exercise of power that deserves no respect and destroys the credibility of t…
I'd suggest to read Hunter S. Thompson's obituary on Nixon https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-... "It was all gibberish, of course. Nixon was no more a Saint than he was a Great President. He was more like Sammy Glick than Winston Churchill. He was a cheap crook and a merciless war criminal who bombed more people to death in Laos and Cambodia than the U.S. Army lost in all of World War II, an…
Interesting, what does he think of Winston Churchill. As an Indian we are not fond of that guy.
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#57A lot of people here are arguing that mainstream media had it coming for them because of bias, arrogance, pushing an agenda, etc. But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth? For all of the media's problems and imperfections, they have acted as a quasi-independent institution holding other powerful institutions and individuals in society in check. They have focused popular attention where it was needed to prevent corruption (think Watergate Scandal, Panama Papers, Edward Snowden, and many others).
Their importance to the free distribution of accurate information was such that even the government itself in the form of federal courts and law has repeatedly recognized the privilege the press has in things such as keeping sources secret. They recognized the importance of such a space in keeping America's democracy powerful. Now, the media is completely being driven to the sidelines. With the rise of personal branding, content distribution, and disinformation, this once-independent place to examine society is going under.
For all the pomposity in this piece, the question is quite relevant: what will replace the media as an arbiter of independent information and truth? For now, it seems that the news and content space is being swallowed up by the information networks of various individuals and institutions, each with the focus of pushing their own image rather than coming clean to the public. If you can't trust any of them because all their perspectives are manipulated, have we reached an end to free and independent discourse?
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#58> As journalists, we all view this as a horrifying assault on the public’s right to know, and on our own status as brave defenders of the public good. And that is all true, for what it’s worth. But this is about power. We need to take some back, lest the rich and powerful run away from one of the last forces restraining them. I don't want the same arrogant, self-unaware journalist that pushes pernicious narratives to…
The NYT vs. SSC episode reminds me of a conflict in Mormonism, the religion I was raised in. A Mormon named John Dehlin criticized the church, and Mormon apologists published a hit piece about him, taking quotations out of context and claiming he was not a true believer. The apologists ended up experiencing a lot of backlash, and their organization, FARMS, had to close down.
The NYT piece on SSC felt like a religious crusade to reveal a blasphemer, taking quotations out of context and making weird, tenuous connections to other known blasphemers.
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#59At some point one gets a knock on the front door, sees a journalist holding a guillotine and pike, but just can't muster the old outrage. The field of heads is vast, most of them had less power than the journalists who decapitated them, and is it really necessary to fight another battle in the culture war over a tiny bakery doing naughty things? Can I really trust you when you say Elon Musk's union-busting is bad, or…
I would argue that the media has become such a rabid monoculture representing only 8% of the population that it has lost the ability to manufacture consent, broadly.
Disney has fallen so far that they failed to tell A Hero’s Journey in the latest Star Wars— and come across to most long time fans as A Villain’s Rise. The same can be said for Captain Marvel. Heck, even Wonder Woman raped a guy in the latest movie.
Then they wonder why their sales are collapsing.
Would you be friends with someone like that?
Re: Journalism, particularly at the highest level, is about raw power
#60A lot of people here are arguing that mainstream media had it coming for them because of bias, arrogance, pushing an agenda, etc. But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth? For all of the media's problems and imperfections, they have acted as a quasi-independent institution holding other powerful institutions and individuals in society in check. They have focused popular attention where it wa…
>>> But I want to ask all of you: what replaces it as arbiter of truth?
A strongman.
An idea that I attribute to Imre Lakatos, is that if you strip people of the ability to debate and discern facts, you create a power vacuum that can only be filled by those who can act in the absence of debate and facts, notably thugs and tyrants.
I believe this is the actual motivation behind the "war on truth" and the flood of misinformation.