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Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

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Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#71

Post by aidenn0 »

cameronh90 wrote: post #25
don-code wrote: post #10

Some time ago, I worked for a defunct energy company that provided demand-side relief in exactly this scenario - when total system load outstrips total system capacity, we'd begin taking actions on behalf of end users, not the utility. Lights would turn off, generators would spin up, fridge temperatures would be raised. ERCOT (Texas) is an interesting case in that it can't import power from other states as easily - i…

Preface: I know very little about power grids, but had a couple thoughts. In the UK, there is a system of load shedding that is tied to the grid frequency. My understanding is that some industrial users agree terms where they get cheaper rates but if the demand outstrips supply, they are first to be cut. This load shedding is implemented by components that monitor the grid frequency, and if it drops below a fixed val…

HVDC is the only reasonable way to transmit power underwater. There's loss due to the conversion, but less than a short underwater run or a long (500+ miles) high tension AC run.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#72

Post by rstupek »

MattGaiser wrote: post #59
mimikatz wrote: post #6

Texas is shockingly green when it comes to power. The windmills have frozen and it is the winter when there isn't as much sun. Most people are on a contract with fixed pricing, but some startups like Griddy are hurting people's wallets. We will likely see some retail electric company bankrupcies. Some of the electric providers are paying customers to move to someone else on Monday. The Joke is all the Californians wh…

Griddy is basically a variable price for power? I checked their website, but it wasn't completely clear on that point (maybe because I don't understand Texas electrical billing).

Yes you pay a monthly fee and get the grid price. Typically this is a great deal but when these surges happen it isn't

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#73

Post by maxerickson »

MattGaiser wrote: post #59
mimikatz wrote: post #6

Texas is shockingly green when it comes to power. The windmills have frozen and it is the winter when there isn't as much sun. Most people are on a contract with fixed pricing, but some startups like Griddy are hurting people's wallets. We will likely see some retail electric company bankrupcies. Some of the electric providers are paying customers to move to someone else on Monday. The Joke is all the Californians wh…

Griddy is basically a variable price for power? I checked their website, but it wasn't completely clear on that point (maybe because I don't understand Texas electrical billing).

Yeah, they pass through the wholesale prices. Most providers do some work to offer fixed retail prices (gaining when wholesale is cheap, losing when it's expensive). Most markets in the US have some sort of system for matching supply and demand, often a wholesale market.

https://www.epa.gov/greenpower/us-electricity-grid-markets has a picture of the various wholesale markets.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#74

Post by qwantim1 »

idlewords wrote: post #21
walrus01 wrote: post #8

It is kind of weird and worrisome that such a large entity doesn't use https Look at the weird error message... https://www.ercot.com/ The rest of the site appears to be http only What's funny is that they do have a valid certificate for their error message page.

Encryption uses too much power

And so does growing massive amounts of pot and mining bitcoin.

Will these things stop? Probably not.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#75

Post by AgentOrange1234 »

sjg007 wrote: post #55

Weird.. you'd think with the AC demand in the summer they'd have enough capacity for winter..

IIRC air conditioning is generally less demanding because you’re ‘only’ trying to drop the temp by ~30F to get back into the 70s on a hot 100F day, whereas for heat you’re trying to increase by a much larger 50-70F on a cold 0-20F day. I’m sure wishing the house was better insulated today (Austin).

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#76

Post by deniablenexus »

rossdavidh wrote: post #4

Texan here. I tried, on Thursday, to buy a space heater; not only was the hardware store out, they told me a list of other places around town that were also out. Most homes use natural gas for heat, but I think a lot of space heaters are probably turned on right now. I also have to wonder how an everyone-videoconference-from-home society changes electricity usage? Not saying it has a significant impact, just wonderin…

> I also have to wonder how an everyone-videoconference-from-home society changes electricity usage? Not saying it has a significant impact, just wondering

I work in the industry in TX and we've seen noticeable changes in both usage patterns and amounts. Most notable in the early morning hours as people are waking up and getting ready to work. A whole lot more people are waking up, checking emails, and keeping lights on at home rather then driving to the office.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#77

Post by jweir »

grendelt wrote: post #63
jweir wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The summer of 2019 was no wind. Today’s problem is ice.

I'm guessing ice is such a rare problem the turbines in Texas aren't equipped to handle it. Not that turbines can't de-ice themselves, right? Surely if they can operate in the North Sea, they can operate in West and South Texas, yeah?

I am not familiar with turbine technology. But I do know wind farms is ISO-NE (New England) have shutdown from ice. Just a quick bit of reading describes the challenges - historically the solutions have been expensive and not very good. One article said there is some promising new technology.

Here is that article (or press release - I know nothing of the source)

https://www.windpowerengineering.com/the-cold-hard-truth-abo...

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#78

Post by galangalalgol »

grendelt wrote: post #63
jweir wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The summer of 2019 was no wind. Today’s problem is ice.

I'm guessing ice is such a rare problem the turbines in Texas aren't equipped to handle it. Not that turbines can't de-ice themselves, right? Surely if they can operate in the North Sea, they can operate in West and South Texas, yeah?

Perhaps there is an unhappy middle temperature where ice forms more easily? I know some people from the northern US that moved to Texas and were mocking how slowly they drove in the snow. Until they had a close call and realized the barely freezing weather makes for worse ice sheets.

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#79

Post by phonebanshee »

ev1 wrote: post #45
slater wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$5k?!?!? How?!

$0.05 to $0.10/kWh seems like normal pricing. Average US house uses ~1100-1200 kWh (I don't actually know this, based on googling, assuming most places in Texas are standalone houses) per month. If prices are $3000-9000 per MW, then ~40 to 60 kWh/day (let's be generous, people are explicitly turning on heat for this extreme cold) for a week... Even $2/kWh (which was exceeded days ago) would demolish peoples' budgets.

Those prices are far below normal prices. Normal is 28-50 cents in places like San Diego (https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/s...).

Re: Ercot nearly at capacity for Texas power grid

#80

Post by ogre_codes »

mlyle wrote: post #27
fghorow wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...lays fallow most of the time." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-02/tesla-battery-expande...

Batteries solve a different problem. They can smooth over daily shortfalls, but aren't so great when you have a week-long aberration. To fix that, you need significant overprovisioning or alternate means of generation. That is, if you depend upon wind and wind is screwed up for a week... batteries aren't going to let you stretch limited solar all night long.

> To fix that, you need significant overprovisioning or alternate means of generation.

They have alternate means of generation... natural gas. There is a big problem with wells shutting down due to the same extremes which shut down wind. Which has caused shortages of natural gas which is doubly problematic because it's also used extensively for heating.

What do you do when your backup power is vulnerable to the same issues as your primary power?

It is arguably a fantastic example of where nuclear power excels. Particularly if you had a nuclear plant which ran well below capacity most of the time and ramped up when we have extreme needs.

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