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How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

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Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#141

Post by kevin__ »

devdas wrote: post #90
kevin__ wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a large part of the problem with conservative policy positions (at least in the US) is that they're mostly unchanged from 30-40 years ago. Despite mountains of evidence on things like work requirements for government benefits, multiplier effects of stimulus spending vs tax cuts, benefits of expanding healthcare coverage, and many more, the conservative positions remain the same. I would guess this is likely b…

Isn't that exactly the meaning of conservative? They want to preserve the status quo of that time.

Sure, I guess in a dictionary sense of the word. But that obviously doesn't match their behavior in that case. They wouldn't be arguing for lower taxes or cuts to social security if they were only interested in preserving what existed in 1980. They wouldn't be attempting to overturn Roe v. Wade or gut the Civil Rights Act.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#142

Post by landemva »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #60
pgsimp wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what - you say it is "regulation" that there is no universal health care? How so? It seems to me "universal health care" would be the regulation. What is stopping people from getting together and forming their own "universal health care" group? There must be millions who are in favor of it? Get 100 million people together, and offer health care to each other. What's stopping you?

> What is stopping people from getting together and forming their own "universal health care" group? There must be millions who are in favor of it? Get 100 million people together, and offer health care to each other. What's stopping you? Some of them would have to put a lot of money at risk. When they do that, they usually want something in return. Well this is how corporations were invented. And those are regulated…

"What's stopping you?"

Typically the State medical device licensing boards will stop you. Try this: get 1000 families to chip in for an MRI and techs to run it for the benefit of the 1000 and their families. When you apply for State permit to turn it on, that board will look at competition in the area and not allow it. The rules don't allow too much competition to drive down prices, so only the mega-corps typically can play the game.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#143

Post by adolph »

The researchers find that the workers who were paid upfront were significantly more productive, making 6.2% more plates per hour. The biggest effect was seen with the poorest workers.

Great, they made 6.2% more plates; what a win for capitalism! Shuffle around the payroll, no change in $$, and boom increased productivity.

Here's the study: https://www.nber.org/papers/w28338

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#144

Post by djrobstep »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #105
djrobstep wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind capitalism systematically creates poverty by depriving income to the ~50% of the population that are not full time workers (children, elderly, sick, disabled, unemployed, students, etc).

> capitalism systematically creates poverty by depriving income to the ~50% of the population that are not full time workers What income are they depriving them from? If they aren’t working, how could anyone deprive them of an income that doesn’t exist?

??? That is literally what deprivation means - the thing you need is absent.

The deprivation is enforced through a large government program called "property law".

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#145

Post by chillfox »

nickthemagicman wrote: post #122
chillfox wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, the UK, It has been interesting to watch your "circus" from the other side of the planet. IMO, the UK handled Covid exceptionally poorly by repeatedly being afraid to act until it was too late. Here in Australia (Specifically the Northern Territory) we locked down hard early on while we had around 20 cases, I think it was for 2 months, after which no further lock downs have been required. Quarantine for travelers…

You have more chance of dying from car accidents than Covid if you're under 55 years old. By locking down hard on age groups who aren't vulnerable to the virus you're enabling the clown world that OP is referring to. Sure lock down the elderly that's fine but making national health policy based on one demographic is full on straight clown world stuff.

COVID is not just about deaths, it also has a risk of lung/heart damage. Also, even if people don’t die or gain lung/heart damage they can still take up hospital capacity until there’s not enough capacity for the people who can survive with hospital care but won’t without.

Anyway, my point is that the UK choose their current situation by being afraid to act back when small steps could have made a huge difference.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#146

Post by wutbrodo »

naebother wrote: post #56

Are the workers that are getting paid in advance 6.2% more productive or are the workers not getting paid in advance 6.2% less productive because of that? Both scenarios make sense to me. I can envision working better if I don't have to constantly worry about my financial situation. But I can also envision working less if I know some people are getting paid in advance, but not me. Either way, boss makes a dollar, I m…

> Are the workers that are getting paid in advance 6.2% more productive or are the workers not getting paid in advance 6.2% less productive because of that?

This question isn't meaningful. "Less" and "more" are relative terms. There's no way to choose which one is occurring in the absolute.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#147

Post by chordalkeyboard »

djrobstep wrote: post #144
chordalkeyboard wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> capitalism systematically creates poverty by depriving income to the ~50% of the population that are not full time workers What income are they depriving them from? If they aren’t working, how could anyone deprive them of an income that doesn’t exist?

??? That is literally what deprivation means - the thing you need is absent. The deprivation is enforced through a large government program called "property law".

> That is literally what deprivation means - the thing you need is absent.

“Deprivation” is the act or process of removing. You’re claiming someone removed the income, but they haven’t done anything to create an income. There’s no income from which to deprive them because they haven’t done anything to generate an income.

> The deprivation happens through a large government program called "property law".

That doesn’t make sense, the way I understand it, property law codifies the rules around the things that people own. That’s preventing owners from being deprived. You’re asserting that laws which forbid depriving people of property are the mechanism by which they are deprived? How does that work?

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#148

Post by ah69 »

pdimitar wrote: post #107
Gene_Parmesan wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you are working for a good company that values you, and embedded in a good team that also values you, there is a bonding that occurs that goes deeper than your average commercial exchange. If you have never been in this position, you may not understand the emotional difficulties involved in watching such a place slowly burn to the ground. Old timers usually still feel loyalty to those of their coworkers who are…

I can't find a single thing to disagree on in your excellent comment but there's one more nuance: "When is the time to let go?" This goes for all areas of life: intimate relationships / marriages, employment, being part of a hobby club that's not the same anymore, local community help (donations, voluntary labor etc.). We the people are extremely bad judges of when is the right time to leave -- and 99% of the time we…

This is all a story. How do you know when you should and should not leave? Everything happens on time. You always leave at the perfect time. You can create a false narrative in your mind and say “I should’ve left two weeks or two years ago;” Or, you can be thankful for the way things are and have the attitude that everything always happens the way it is supposed to.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#149

Post by djrobstep »

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #147
djrobstep wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

??? That is literally what deprivation means - the thing you need is absent. The deprivation is enforced through a large government program called "property law".

> That is literally what deprivation means - the thing you need is absent. “Deprivation” is the act or process of removing. You’re claiming someone removed the income, but they haven’t done anything to create an income. There’s no income from which to deprive them because they haven’t done anything to generate an income. > The deprivation happens through a large government program called "property law". That doesn’t…

> but they haven’t done anything to create an income

"People who don't work full time should starve" is ideology, not some law of physics.

> There’s no income from which to deprive them

There is plenty. US GDP is trillions a year.

> How does that work?

Property law creates property ownership. Ownership assigned to one person is deprived from others.

Re: How Poverty Makes Workers Less Productive

#150

Post by pdimitar »

ah69 wrote: post #148
pdimitar wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't find a single thing to disagree on in your excellent comment but there's one more nuance: "When is the time to let go?" This goes for all areas of life: intimate relationships / marriages, employment, being part of a hobby club that's not the same anymore, local community help (donations, voluntary labor etc.). We the people are extremely bad judges of when is the right time to leave -- and 99% of the time we…

This is all a story. How do you know when you should and should not leave? Everything happens on time. You always leave at the perfect time. You can create a false narrative in your mind and say “I should’ve left two weeks or two years ago;” Or, you can be thankful for the way things are and have the attitude that everything always happens the way it is supposed to.

At least in the context of my life experience I will disagree somewhat. I have this way of intuiting when I have made the most out of a situation or an interaction (especially when it comes to paid work) and time and again, without fail, I have noticed that due to emotional immaturity I have stayed well after the point at which I stopped learning and thriving and started getting poisoned by various bad (new) conditions.

But don't get me wrong: I am doing my very best not to live with regret and make myself better utilizing those past lessons -- as you said. But analyzing it back in time, I know that I actually had the right mindset but was too weak to utilize it.

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