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The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

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Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#31

Post by yeetman21 »

ddek wrote: post #17

I've got a few issues with most of these studies. The media tends to make this worse, because these articles (and their accompanying social media discussion) seem to exist solely for writers and readers to claim superiority over the perceived elites . Those pretentious wine snobs, don't they know an Aldi boxed wine tastes no better than their precious Chateau Lafite Rothschild ? The argument is always the same: a cla…

seething "aficionado" detected. were you the one in the study and is that why you are so triggered?

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#32

Post by im3w1l »

casion wrote: post #25
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stradivarius violins are invariably played and sometimes owned by soloists, who either literally play solo, lead a concerto, or occasionally play with a pianist or as part of a small ensemble. First violin in an orchestra will usually have a more modest instrument. Edit to add: of course there's a lot of Veblenisation in music, and this gets silly when people who are really collectors try to do music and end up being…

I find your response somewhat strange. I'm saying that context matters, and your response is that... context matters? It would appear that I'm being misread to defend a specific instrument. I'm saying that there's more value to an instrument than simply a 1:n listening test. That goes for ANY instrument. Regarding people spending money on things they can't fully use (or sometimes appreciate), of course. That happens…

I think he is saying that they are used by soloists which is also how they are compared. So the context is the same.

Before going on a huge (but interesting) tangent.

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#34

Post by fbelzile »

Wine tasting is an art of deduction. The first step of any wine tasting is to look at the color, rim variation, legs, etc. From there, you take account the smell and taste. At a professional level, this is always done in a particular order to help narrow down possible characteristics for the next step. If you change the color of the wine, you'll send the wine taster down a completely different mental flow chart.

The tasters assumed the wine didn't have food coloring and correctly used all senses available to them to do the tasting. It's very disingenuous to point out that they should have used more white wine descriptors. The wine was red, so they used that information to further deduct characteristics of red wine.

I also find it peculiar that they don't mention the variety used for this study [1]. The color of the wine comes from how long skins are left with the must (skin contact) while making the wine. There are many wine varieties (white and red) that taste very similar. In some cases, you can have both a white and red coming from the exact same grapes (Pinor Noir, for example).

[1] I did Ctrl+F for "variety" on the study: https://web.archive.org/web/20070928231853/http://www.academ...

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#35

Post by ndnfjttkrk »

im3w1l wrote: post #30

I suspect it wont replicate. Not because there was any flaw in the original. But because today's students have heard of that study and will be more suspicious.

Randomize the coloring?

Or make it part of a bigger study, for example "we want to test if wine tasters are also good beer tasters"

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#36

Post by casion »

im3w1l wrote: post #32
casion wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find your response somewhat strange. I'm saying that context matters, and your response is that... context matters? It would appear that I'm being misread to defend a specific instrument. I'm saying that there's more value to an instrument than simply a 1:n listening test. That goes for ANY instrument. Regarding people spending money on things they can't fully use (or sometimes appreciate), of course. That happens…

I think he is saying that they are used by soloists which is also how they are compared. So the context is the same. Before going on a huge (but interesting) tangent.

Sure, but thats not the only contingent of context. Location, piece, player, specific instrument, time of year etc...

I'm in no way saying that this means a specific instrument is better, but specifically that we can't draw that conclusion from these types of studies.

(I understand that you're not the parent, but it's still an interesting discussion)

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#37

Post by ndnfjttkrk »

To me red wine tastes very differently from white wine.

Am I fooling myself? Are they really indistinguishable?

Is it possible that the experts were afraid of using white attributes for a red wine, like in social consensus experiments?

Did anybody ran a test in the dark, where you cant see the wine at all?

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#38

Post by philliphaydon »

touggourt wrote: post #27

As a professional cooker, I can confirm that vision is the most important part in tasting. I've read other studies that shows that taste is a brain build which include senses and feelings. Everyone has done a dinner with good friends, eating pasta with butter and drinking some basical wine — do you remember how it was delicious ?

> I can confirm that vision is the most important part in tasting.

Unless your name is Christine Ha.

:)

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#39

Post by JoeAltmaier »

fbelzile wrote: post #34

Wine tasting is an art of deduction. The first step of any wine tasting is to look at the color, rim variation, legs, etc. From there, you take account the smell and taste. At a professional level, this is always done in a particular order to help narrow down possible characteristics for the next step. If you change the color of the wine, you'll send the wine taster down a completely different mental flow chart. The…

Reading that, I'm confused about the conclusion. The wine tasters were looking for flavors, and said they found them. If they weren't there, they should have said so.

The inescapable conclusion is, the supposed differences between white and red wine are imaginary. They are not in the wine, but in the taster's head. In the 'mental flow chart', the chart they use to make up words about what they're tasting.

Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)

#40

Post by JoeAltmaier »

optimalsolver wrote: post #4

Now do one for Stradivarius violins.

What would you measure? One feature of very good musical instruments is, they make it far easier to get the sounds you want. They are versatile and flexible, with a wide range of possible responses. They sound like what the artist intends, which is why they are so popular to play.

So are you measuring the artist? How would you measure this quality in the instrument?

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