Earlier quoted context omitted.
This double-blind study found that experts preferred modern violins to Strads in listening tests: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strad...
These studies are flawed in ways that every experienced musician recognizes they are: context. It's _common_ that instruments that sound amazing in a solo context will sound poor in a larger ensemble, or might sound great in one ensemble but not another. Personal context factors in: how does it feel, how stable is the neck, is it work in commonly stressed spots (usually good), is the design kind to your habits, etc..…
The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
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Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
That has been done multiple times. It is easy: just record the sound and compare acoustic signatures. And yes, Stradivarius is different. https://www.theguardian.com/science/2018/may/21/scientists-f...
This double-blind study found that experts preferred modern violins to Strads in listening tests: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strad...
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#13And still I do like my Pinot Noir a bit watery red :) I don't really know what is happening in this context. Maybe a lot of people have not much taste, or cannot disciminate between different tastes or things? I don't understand anything about the words that go along with wine and beer reviews. I don't understand anything about using words like chocolate or nuts in describing the taste of wine or beer. I do know what…
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#14BS? Or simply subjective? Sure people are influenced by "experts", as humans when isn't that true? Fashion? Music? The list is endless.
We want to believe we are autonomous and independent but more often we naturally conform to the norm around us. Third-party insights and guidance are why we survived.
I like wine. But I drink what I like. My senses aren't necessarily the same as someone else's. I'm sure if I tasted enough wine I could become an "expert." But that doesn't appeal to me. It takes the enjoyment out of it. I don't think that makes experience and expertise BS. Merely subjective.
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
This double-blind study found that experts preferred modern violins to Strads in listening tests: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strad...
These studies are flawed in ways that every experienced musician recognizes they are: context. It's _common_ that instruments that sound amazing in a solo context will sound poor in a larger ensemble, or might sound great in one ensemble but not another. Personal context factors in: how does it feel, how stable is the neck, is it work in commonly stressed spots (usually good), is the design kind to your habits, etc..…
First violin in an orchestra will usually have a more modest instrument.
Edit to add: of course there's a lot of Veblenisation in music, and this gets silly when people who are really collectors try to do music and end up being just a more extreme kind of consumer.
Hifi, guitars, synthesizers, and recording equipment are full of this - plenty of moderately wealthy doctors, lawyers, financiers and such of low-to-average talent buying vintage or custom signature whatevers and displaying them proudly on social media.
But there are also professionals who are super-sensitive to tone and expression and have a (literal) track record of making choices that audiences respond to.
Some of them have impressive collections too, but they're able to justify them for specific creative ends.
The difference is that if you take an expert and give them an average instrument they'll do miracles with it. If you take a collector and give them a room full of classics they'll produce mediocre mush.
But give an expert the classics and they'll wring an extra level of musical credibility and interest out of them. That zone is out of reach of the collectors, but audiences still appreciate it and pay for it when they hear it.
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#16Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#17The media tends to make this worse, because these articles (and their accompanying social media discussion) seem to exist solely for writers and readers to claim superiority over the perceived elites. Those pretentious wine snobs, don't they know an Aldi boxed wine tastes no better than their precious Chateau Lafite Rothschild?
The argument is always the same: a classification of wine, such as price, region, or even colour; is irrelevant to the quality of the wine. I find the argument itself is valid, but not convincing because it's totally orthogonal to what I'd like from a wine.
I don't care about a wines quality score, whatever that is. Wine has a deep and complex flavour, and different bottles have different flavours. Many flavours are acquired tastes - not everyone finds bitterness or tannin pleasant. This variety is what does it for me.
Honestly, I find these studies ridiculous. Our sense of taste depends so much on our eyes and nose, that such trickery will always get you results. I don't doubt I'd fall for such a trick.
Anyway, if using junk science to bash people for their preferred beverages is your favourite pastime, you do you. Something-something inferiority compl-cough
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#18And still I do like my Pinot Noir a bit watery red :) I don't really know what is happening in this context. Maybe a lot of people have not much taste, or cannot disciminate between different tastes or things? I don't understand anything about the words that go along with wine and beer reviews. I don't understand anything about using words like chocolate or nuts in describing the taste of wine or beer. I do know what…
Novelty plays a part in this too.
Sipping tastes different from drinking and gulping. If an 'expert' doesn't know that, and isn't controlling for those variances, then their opinion is not going to be terribly rigorous.
Notably, Pepsi Cola made great use of these types of tricks for their advertising campaign re: "Take the Pepsi Challenge".
Much of taste is more subtle and experiential than many realize.
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#19> The research, later published in the journal Brain and Language, is now widely used to show why wine tasting is total BS. BS? Or simply subjective? Sure people are influenced by "experts", as humans when isn't that true? Fashion? Music? The list is endless. We want to believe we are autonomous and independent but more often we naturally conform to the norm around us. Third-party insights and guidance are why we sur…
Tasting a lot of wines and beers either makes you an expert or a drunk or an expert drunk or drunk expert?
Either way, theres no certainty that a drunk isn't an expert or vice versa.
Re: The Legendary Study That Embarrassed Wine Experts (2014)
#20Another somewhat famous study involved taking a cheap wine and an expensive wine and swapping the bottles. When people tasted the wines and the bottles were hidden, people accurately scored the wines. When the bottles were visible, people preferred the wine in the expensive bottle. All but the experts were susceptible to this effect.