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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#561

Post by tim333 »

qubit000 wrote: post #492
mcswell wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is wrong, even deceitful, for a couple reasons: 1) No country (officially, or afaik in reality) has a bio weapons lab, and certainly not "all over the world". Nobody (well, nobody official) ever said the Wuhan virus lab was a bioweapon lab; it's a virology lab. 2) The Wuhan virus lab has been experimenting with corona viruses for a long time, including gain of function, and it had a history of problems. 3) There…

Fort Detrick was a bio weapons lab that has since closed but US has plenty more around the world, and likely, many that are undisclosed.

It didn't close so much as rebrand as the United States Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases.

I don't think the US has labs abroad but other countries such as the UK and Russia have mucked around with bioweapons research in the past. Probably China too as it has a general policy to keep up with the opposition.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#562

Post by tremon »

berdario wrote: post #560
tremon wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GTFO. The article is about the US government's stance, not about the WHO, so quoting random people that have no affiliation with the White House is completely missing the point, and I think intentionally.

From the article: "China refused to give raw data on early COVID-19 cases to the WHO-led team probing the origins of the pandemic, according to one of the team’s investigators, potentially complicating efforts to understand how the outbreak began." The powerful people in our governments are reading the same propaganda that you and I are reading, and they can thus end up believing it. The reason why the US government…

A discussion in good faith does not begin with "[TFA] is twisting the truth."

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#563

Post by YaSamPoSebe »

travisgriggs wrote: post #335
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

Is it just me or is there a deep irony here? I find it interesting that one of the oft maligned attributes of religious communities, especially those in authority in said communities, is this same behavior. Do good things and be open, but also very much protect the brand. As a naive westerner I've hear/learned/assumed that Chinese communism/society was areligious. When described as you (OP) put it, it seems that abst…

" I'm curious why these structures seem to rise" - ask yourself about your state religion, the neoliberalism. You might be less clueless about that.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#564

Post by pts_ »

galkk wrote: post #509
JenniferRM wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in BSL-5 labs? Must be in rural isolation, NOT a city. The administrators and janitors and everyone has to sleep inside the fence. Getting out requires spending 40 days in a quarantine hotel in a different nearby fenced area. Armed guards patrol the fence. (EDIT: To be clear. BSL-5 doesn't exist yet... but it should.)

Maybe a fully underground, enclosed facility where scientists work and live. Oh, wait...

Only to be defeated by a rubber gasket eating mutation.

Anyway Murphy's law is always applicable and we need the capability to fight fires even more.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#565

Post by pinipedman »

tim333 wrote: post #552
pinipedman wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true of capitalist economic systems and democratic political systems. The USSR was not unusual in eliminating heterodox views, not that it was ever communist in more than name.

Capitalist systems produce pretty much constant criticism of capitalist systems. The line tends to be more that this sucks but we tried voting in the other lot and that sucked too.

Criticizing such details are not the same as criticizing the system itself. Preferring one implementation of capitalism over another isn't a criticism of capitalism. Similarly, espousing one political party over another isn't criticism of democracy.

If you suggest eliminating private property to mitigate certain ills engendered by capitalism, or express another view that is truly antithetical to capitalism then you will find yourself marginalized to the point you cannot influence the system.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#566

Post by tim333 »

throwaway54095 wrote: post #125
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

It's crazy that at this point we still keep with this delusion. Of course this is a lab virus. This info is getting old: https://project-evidence.github.io/ https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-origins-genome-analy... Who was really behind this, and the whole history of it, is something surely we won't know for know. "When war is declared, truth is the first casualty"

There remains uncertainty. It could be zoonotic. Spreads in some remote village that no one takes notice of, then a villager does a trip to Wuhan.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#567

Post by lenkite »

em500 wrote: post #455
lenkite wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

World governments were formally advised by the WHO to not impose any travel restrictions. The WHO also laughably said there is no "human transmission" of the virus. The WHO chief just blindly parroted whatever the CCP said for nearly 2 months while the pandemic spread and got out of control. That man deserves to be stripped out of his position. But he will face no justice for the many, many lives he has taken. The en…

This paints a rather colored picture. The initial advisory from 14 Jan 2020 [1] presents their case that "Based on the available information there is no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission." The reader can decide if that was a fair assesment at the time. The text was followed by "Additional investigation is needed to ascertain the presence of human-to-human transmission, modes of transmission, common source…

It's not just 14th Jan. The WHO had more than sufficient data at its disposal to avoid making misleading statements. All warnings from Taiwan in December were actively ignored.

https://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/taiwan-wa...

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/3904054

Please note that the WHO confirmation statement on 22nd Jan came about after independent confirmation of human to human transmission and only after China's health ministry itself confirmed human to human transmission on Jan 20th. Just a mere week after strong denial, the casualties could not be hidden anymore after several whistleblowers spoke up and China was forced to backtrack.

The WHO merely acknowledged what China stated with a wishy-washy "more data is needed". I suspect if China hadn't itself come clean they would have simply followed what the CCP stated well into the future!

If the WHO had chosen to acknowledge Taiwan's concern in December, performed the most minimum of followups and raised the alarm early, this disaster could have been nipped in the bud. A lot of second and third-world nations put faith in the WHO and outside the EU and the US, the anger at the WHO is palpable.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#569

Post by tim333 »

pinipedman wrote: post #565
tim333 wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalist systems produce pretty much constant criticism of capitalist systems. The line tends to be more that this sucks but we tried voting in the other lot and that sucked too.

Criticizing such details are not the same as criticizing the system itself. Preferring one implementation of capitalism over another isn't a criticism of capitalism. Similarly, espousing one political party over another isn't criticism of democracy. If you suggest eliminating private property to mitigate certain ills engendered by capitalism, or express another view that is truly antithetical to capitalism then you w…

Well googling "capitalism broken" gives plenty of results. I admit eliminating private property doesn't get much respect but that's a different thing.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#570

Post by YaSamPoSebe »

ashtonkem wrote: post #289
fiftyfifty wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The funny thing in this case is there was no reason for the CCP to cover this up. If they had just responded to the outbreak instead of trying to cover it up initially and been a little more open with the international community they would have been lauded for their handling of the situation.

Authoritarian regimes develop a knee jerk response to anything that might reflect negatively on them, even if it ends up actually harming their long term interests.

"Authoritarian regimes.." - oh I see, it is the "authoritarian regimes"..

Now go and check (it contains a story about FOIA requests to the UK government on Assange's case)

https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/18/signs-of-u-k-misconduc...

It is the 6th (!) year that the litigation to obtain the information goes on.

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