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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#521

Post by bondarchuk »

rlt wrote: post #406
mkolodny wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a real possibility that a gain-of-function experiment created SARS-CoV-2: "Lipsitch’s activists (calling themselves the Cambridge Working Group) sent around a strong statement on the perils of research with “Potential Pandemic Pathogens,” signed by more than a hundred scientists. The work might “trigger outbreaks that would be difficult or impossible to control,” the signers said. Fauci reconsidered, and the…

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Similarly smallpox has been completely eradicated, but USA and Russia like to keep around a few live samples, "for research". Whatever will wipe us all out in the end, we probably had it coming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smallpox_virus_retention_debat...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#522

Post by ajdegol »

alasdair_ wrote: post #424
rlt wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This research creates deadly diseases that may not have existed otherwise. This seems like a supremely bad idea.

Personally, I kind of like the idea that we could know in advance if a tiny mutation could turn a known disease into something that wipes us all out. Only inside level four labs, of course. But early warning (and this work on mitigation) seems important.

There was some considerable progress recently using AI to predict possible mutations. I wish I could find the link. That seems like a better way to go.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#523

Post by josefx »

galkk wrote: post #509
JenniferRM wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe in BSL-5 labs? Must be in rural isolation, NOT a city. The administrators and janitors and everyone has to sleep inside the fence. Getting out requires spending 40 days in a quarantine hotel in a different nearby fenced area. Armed guards patrol the fence. (EDIT: To be clear. BSL-5 doesn't exist yet... but it should.)

Maybe a fully underground, enclosed facility where scientists work and live. Oh, wait...

The lock down in the first Resident Evil movie seemed quite effective, until the response team reset the security system to get out.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#524

Post by pinipedman »

odiroot wrote: post #514
ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

It's like in any communist state before (we had the same in Poland). You can blame an individual, even sentence them to death, but you cannot ever criticise the system /party. Nor shine a light at any evidence that the system is wrong. This is a deadly sin. For the party to admit, there's flaws in the system, would collapse their whole authority.

This is true of any political system. You are not allowed to criticize what the system claims to be. For state capitalist nations like China or the former USSR which claim to be communist you are unable to criticize communism. In an oligarchy like America which claims to be a democracy you are unable to criticize democracy. They differ in the means by which they marginalize dissidents but in either case you are rendered unable to threaten the presiding political order.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#525

Post by ucha »

saiya-jin wrote: post #485
hayst4ck wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this quite convincing: https://project-evidence.github.io/ Summary (IIRC): The most likely explanation of its origins is a person who collected bats for a lab in Wuhan contracted the disease in the cave where bats were collected.

that ignores the finding of Covid in September 2019 in Italy, which would make connection to Wuhan lab questionable

Almost certainly a false positive. You can't have a virus propagating with a R0 of 2-4 and a cycle of ~1 week start in September 2019 yet have almost no cases by December 2019.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#526

Post by ungamed »

sverhagen wrote: post #493
anonymouse008 wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that same logic - Did you ever leave your house feb 2020 to now? If you did, you could’ve done more.

I turned into a freakin' hermit... How about you?

Thats my secret, I was a hermit before covid (not OP).

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#527

Post by [deleted] »

shireboy wrote: post #226
loveistheanswer wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also noteworthy is Dr. Fauci has been a long time proponent and sponsor of gain of function experiments as head of the NIAID, the infectious diseases arm of the NIH.[1] After a few different US lab leaks involving anthrax, smallpox, and avian flu in 2014 the Obama administration put a ban on the fuding of gain of function research.[2] The ban was eventually overturned in 2018.[3] [1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/op…

I'm assuming justification for GoF research wasn't "we want to make a bioweapon". What are the arguments in favor of this type of research?

[deleted]

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#528

Post by buran77 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #515
buran77 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Chinese authorities may very well be to blame for this, your reasoning is flawed. Governments hide a lot of things for a lot of reasons, whether nefarious or not, especially when it comes to sharing with foreign powers. The "argument" that "if you've got nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about" is is just as worthless when promoting encryption backdoors as it is now.

Then The WHO should be saying "we can't eliminate the possibility of a lab origin because China is engaging in a massive coverup and won't let us investigate anything" rather than "Laboratory contamination can be excluded because...".

If that is indeed their conclusion then yes, it should say that, perhaps in a somewhat less biased phrasing. In a similar vein, the Reuters title might be called "US government with extremely poor transparency track record raises deep self-serving hypocritical concerns over international report that doesn't paint US enemy in a bad enough light".

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#529

Post by croes »

f430 wrote: post #17
mgamache wrote: post #4

Related: China refused to provide WHO team with raw data on early COVID cases, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-ch...

If the CCP is innocent why not prove it to the world by sharing their data? Why hide things?

Proving innocence? So that's where we are again? I thought an achievement of modern times was the concept that you have to prove guilt not innocence.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#530

Post by tim333 »

bhawks wrote: post #466
mkolodny wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a real possibility that a gain-of-function experiment created SARS-CoV-2: "Lipsitch’s activists (calling themselves the Cambridge Working Group) sent around a strong statement on the perils of research with “Potential Pandemic Pathogens,” signed by more than a hundred scientists. The work might “trigger outbreaks that would be difficult or impossible to control,” the signers said. Fauci reconsidered, and the…

Although I am there with you in spirit, a global ban is effectively meaningless. It is unenforceable from the start. All the major world powers would continue their research (perhaps slightly less openly) simply from a MAD angle (it is irresponsible to ignore the value of a pathogen that no one else has seen and you have the antibiotics for). We are living in dark times in terms of our technological capability and th…

Most of the gain of function research is either well meaning to understand disease or part of normal science published in journals. Banning it would reduce the amount done greatly.
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