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Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

palladiummag.com

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Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#21

Post by throwaway345349 »

rolleiflex wrote: post #11

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality: “Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.” In other words, it appears the whole territory i…

This region has Christian monasteries [1] all around it dating as far back as the 4th century. Unless Muslims started building churches at some point in their existence, I would really have to disagree that Armenia held this land hostage.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_Artsakh

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#23

Post by cblconfederate »

bonzini wrote: post #16
rolleiflex wrote: post #11

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality: “Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.” In other words, it appears the whole territory i…

The other missing part is that Nagorno-Karabakh was moved from Armenia to Azerbaijan by Stalin in order to mess up the region (reminding of Crimea) even though the population was massively of Armenian ethnicity. After the USSR dissolved Azerbaijan held pogroms in Baku (1990), pushed all the Armenians to NK (at which point the NK population was 98% Armenians) and started eradicating their culture. Armenia started occu…

It was also an "autonomous oblast" under USSR

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#24

Post by cblconfederate »

rolleiflex wrote: post #11

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality: “Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.” In other words, it appears the whole territory i…

It's a lot more complicated than that, that's why the UN supports the OSCE group. The pre-war consensus of the group was that a final solution would be an official status for NK, while armenia would return the surrounding territories that were occupied as buffer zone

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrid_Principles

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#25

Post by mrweasel »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #9
bzb6 wrote: post #2

The truth is that the future of Armenia is either with Russia or with Azerbaijan, a Muslim country. It’s their choice, but I know what I would choose myself.

I would choose the EU if the EU were to grow some cojones.

That would require getting a handle on economics, corruption and political mismanagement. It would take a decade or more of change. They could align themselves more with the EU, but remember: The EU cannot, AND WILL NOT, go to war over a small asian country, regardless of how it align it self with the union.

So Armenia would risk provoking it’s neighbors, with no way of defending it self.

So, yeah, the EU would need to grow a massive set of balls and build an army large enough to keep Russia away, and station troops in all EU friendly states bordering Russia. I’d call that a 2050 plan at best.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#27

Post by caoilte »

m_a_g wrote: post #10

This article feels very one-sided. I don't support any side in this conflict, but this article feels like Armenian propaganda.

This constant demand for balance is why people who don't think Covid is real are given so much time in the news.

Just because a story is one sided doesn't mean it is propaganda. It's very clear from this story that the situation in the Caucasus is very complex and that there are no straightforward solutions.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#28

Post by nexthash »

raxetul wrote: post #5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre Numbers by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch

How is this relevant at all? The Nagorno-Karabakh conflict has been grinding on for a arduously long time, and both sides have committed atrocities [1]. War is war, and war is brutal. It is always a universal human tragedy when two groups of people resort to such violence against each other.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maraga_massacre

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#29

Post by supernova87a »

So much of former USSR central Asia seems to have a rubber stamp quality to the troubles there. Are there any real success stories, aside from maybe just stability (which itself is an achievement in this area)? Maybe Kazakhstan?

I most vividly took away an image of the region and effects of Russian influence when I had read this article about how pro-Russia Crimeans should not be so quick to welcome Russian influence: https://archive.is/iZDJb ("If History Is a Guide, Crimeans’ Celebration May Be Short-Lived")

People only need look to past examples of broken promises and more political posturing than real economic and governmental progress when being absorbed under the Russian umbrella.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#30

Post by [deleted] »

bonzini wrote: post #16
rolleiflex wrote: post #11

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality: “Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.” In other words, it appears the whole territory i…

The other missing part is that Nagorno-Karabakh was moved from Armenia to Azerbaijan by Stalin in order to mess up the region (reminding of Crimea) even though the population was massively of Armenian ethnicity. After the USSR dissolved Azerbaijan held pogroms in Baku (1990), pushed all the Armenians to NK (at which point the NK population was 98% Armenians) and started eradicating their culture. Armenia started occu…

[deleted]
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