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Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

palladiummag.com

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Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#11

Post by rolleiflex »

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality:

“Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.”

In other words, it appears the whole territory is Azerbaijan’s, and the whole planet, EU, US and the UN confirms that this is so. Turns out, Armenia had an 30-plus year invasion force holding Azerbaijani territory.

That’s the kind of thing they should have put front and centre, because it completely changes the narrative.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#12

Post by gambiting »

basicwolf wrote: post #4

Seriously? A pro-armenian, propagandistic article in top of HN?

I mean, for those of us who aren't versed on the Armenian politics, would you care explaining what exactly makes it a propaganda article? To my untrained and unfamiliar with the region eye it just looks like reporting on the situation there, but I'd love to know more.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#13

Post by m_a_g »

gambiting wrote: post #12
basicwolf wrote: post #4

Seriously? A pro-armenian, propagandistic article in top of HN?

I mean, for those of us who aren't versed on the Armenian politics, would you care explaining what exactly makes it a propaganda article? To my untrained and unfamiliar with the region eye it just looks like reporting on the situation there, but I'd love to know more.

Everything is written from Armenian perspective. That doesn't raise red flags for you?

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#14

Post by throwaway345349 »

gambiting wrote: post #12
basicwolf wrote: post #4

Seriously? A pro-armenian, propagandistic article in top of HN?

I mean, for those of us who aren't versed on the Armenian politics, would you care explaining what exactly makes it a propaganda article? To my untrained and unfamiliar with the region eye it just looks like reporting on the situation there, but I'd love to know more.

There is nothing propagandistic about this site. The OP, Zaurun Fikirləri, is either a Turk or Azerbaijani who is clearly triggered by the content of the article.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#15

Post by dmurray »

bzb6 wrote: post #2

The truth is that the future of Armenia is either with Russia or with Azerbaijan, a Muslim country. It’s their choice, but I know what I would choose myself.

Azerbaijan is also a small country, although it's correctly painted as the bigger and richer of the enemies in this conflict. Additionally, Azeris and Armenians hate each other. So Azerbaijan is too small, weak and culturally different to subsume Armenia.

The big powers in the region are Russia, Turkey and Iran. If you must argue that Armenia should pick a big power to cosy up to, those are the options. Turkey is likely committed to Azerbaijan, but Iran and Russia are willing to play both sides.

Pursuing closer links with Europe and the EU is a fourth option. As the article points out, Armenia has historic links to Europe (although in the same paragraph it concedes that the strongest of those are to Russia, not the Western countries...) and this would be more attractive to Armenians. Unfortunately, it doesn't have much to offer the EU. It's poor and geographically isolated and the EU, which doesn't have unified armed forces, isn't interested in projecting military power overseas.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#16

Post by bonzini »

rolleiflex wrote: post #11

While this is a good description of Armenian government’s general mismanagement, this article refers to this crucial bit of information far too deeply buried in its narrative to the point it starts to make me doubt its impartiality: “Karabakh is an internationally recognized territory of Azerbaijan, and Armenia is seen to have occupied the territory for over 30 years.” In other words, it appears the whole territory i…

The other missing part is that Nagorno-Karabakh was moved from Armenia to Azerbaijan by Stalin in order to mess up the region (reminding of Crimea) even though the population was massively of Armenian ethnicity.

After the USSR dissolved Azerbaijan held pogroms in Baku (1990), pushed all the Armenians to NK (at which point the NK population was 98% Armenians) and started eradicating their culture. Armenia started occupying Nagorno-Karabakh in 1991 after these things happened.

Add to this that Azeris are ethnically and historically related to the Turkish, who are responsible for genocide of Armenians in the early 20th century and have been denying it since, and you can see why Armenian occupation of NK deserves little more than a footnote.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#17

Post by gambiting »

m_a_g wrote: post #13
gambiting wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, for those of us who aren't versed on the Armenian politics, would you care explaining what exactly makes it a propaganda article? To my untrained and unfamiliar with the region eye it just looks like reporting on the situation there, but I'd love to know more.

Everything is written from Armenian perspective. That doesn't raise red flags for you?

Frankly, no. It's a report written from Armenia so of course it's written from that perspective. That alone doesn't make it propaganda. If I as Polish citizen write a report on Polish politics from my perspective that doesn't make it a propaganda piece now, does it? If there's a similar report from Azerbaijan I'll be happy to read it as well.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#18

Post by cblconfederate »

raxetul wrote: post #5

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khojaly_massacre Numbers by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Rights_Watch

This is the kind of reflexive reply that is posted in virtually every pro-armenia comment made everywhere. Facebook has already identified a network of bots used during and after the war

https://about.fb.com/news/2020/10/removing-coordinated-inaut...

It doesn't even make sense to mention a single massacre against a history of genocide against armenians that counts more than 1.5 million dead and countless atrocities that continue to this day.

Re: Armenia Is an Orphaned Client State

#19

Post by cblconfederate »

basicwolf wrote: post #4

Seriously? A pro-armenian, propagandistic article in top of HN?

Care to suggest a better alternative? The truth is , there are going to be many more pro-armenia articles in the international press, simply because armenia is a much free-er country than azerbaijan, and many more reporters are there. AZ is ran by a family oil dictatorship that ranks at the bottom of freedom of press, is known to bribe international committees and has a long history of preaching hatred to its own population. In addition, i don't think it's easy to sympathize with the ethnic cleansing of the region attempted by AZ.

https://rsf.org/en/azerbaijan

https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/13628-italian-court-sentences...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramil_Safarov

https://www.calvertjournal.com/articles/show/12442/azerbaija...

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