Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

wbur.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

201–210 of 293 posts

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#201

Post by mattkrause »

raziel2701 wrote: post #162
mattkrause wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's no longer true. From 2013 onward, the results of all federally-funded research needs to be publicly available. Here's the memo mandating it: https://obamawhitehouse.archives.gov/blog/2013/02/22/expandi... People do generally take this seriously and there are consequences (e.g., can't use publications in NIH grants if they haven't been deposited).

I have continued to publish and never have I been instructed to make the papers be open access. No one is enforcing that mandate. The research I've been a part of is wholly funded by the taxpayer and papers that I published after the mandate continue to not be freely available.

Umm...not sure what to tell you about that, other than you’re potentially out of compliance with the terms you and your institution agreed to.

I think there is a 6-12 month “exclusivity” period still, and some journals handle that automatically if you acknowledge federal funding. For example, Current Biology moved our stuff out from behind the paywall automatically on its publication anniversary.

- Here’s the NIH policy: https://publicaccess.nih.gov/policy.htm

- The NSF: https://www.nsf.gov/news/special_reports/public_access/index...

- DoE: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/08/f18/DOE_Publ...

- DoD: https://discover.dtic.mil/public-access-requirements-incorpo...

I’m not sure if anyone has been sanctioned for not following these, but NIH progress reports/renewals require a PMCID for any papers you want to claim. You want to claim a lot on these to demonstrate productivity, so....there’s a good incentive to do this.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#202

Post by tensor »

pvaldes wrote: post #121
tensor wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've spent many years in the academic spaces, both in public genetics labs as well as in computer science departments. I've never encountered anything like what you claim, and no one I know in academia has either. Extraordinary claims like yours need proof, no one will or should take you at your word, especially when there is the weight of many others experiences that cut against your claims.

> Extraordinary claims like yours need proof Scientific scam (or scientific mistake, not necessarily deliberate) is well documented in fact. It seems that >1800 published articles were retracted in 2020 by scientific journals, including 72 related with covid [1] so, maybe is not common, but yes, sometimes it happens. There is nothing extraordinary in that idea. The ideology that requires scientists to be a replacemen…

I never claimed it doesn't happen, it's trivial to see that it occasionally does. The OP seemed to be suggesting that it was rampant and widespread, which I have a very hard time believing. Especially to the level of outright fabrication, rather than sloppy work or presenting subsets of real data in a dishonest way.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#203

Post by im3w1l »

idrios wrote: post #196
GlennS wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I'm no in the US so not familiar with your GPA system, but couldn't you just take one more class which you knew you'd do well at to push that over the line?

Yup, and I did consider it. But another semester of college just to boost my GPA would've been expensive. I don't have regrets how things turned out, but point is my story is common

Sounds like you weren't that motivated in the first place. Could have been a blessing in disguise to meet at hurdle sooner rather than later.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#204

Post by Larrikin »

im3w1l wrote: post #203
idrios wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, and I did consider it. But another semester of college just to boost my GPA would've been expensive. I don't have regrets how things turned out, but point is my story is common

Sounds like you weren't that motivated in the first place. Could have been a blessing in disguise to meet at hurdle sooner rather than later.

Not having financial means to waste more time in college has no bearing on the person's motivation.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#205

Post by joe_the_user »

mlinhares wrote: post #156
gww wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a hard and frustrating career. I work on an academic lab but the chances of me having an independent research program are very low. However, everyone who wants something from you -- especially your PI -- will string you along in the hope you will stick to your low paying job. I am trying to find a better job in industry but the jobs I see posted tend to be for data science (I am not a strong stats person) or too…

It might be better for you to take the hit now and land a junior job and progress from that than continue to wait for the perfect job to arrive.

A job being "too junior" for someone often means they can't get it even if they want it - the organization is looking for someone with little experience who is presumably young and can rise through the ranks.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#206

Post by jltsiren »

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #150
usrusr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is what would be the alternative to grant applications. A grant lottery?Tenure lottery? Stop funding entirely and just include "dear God, make our science advance" in your evening prayer? Nobody considers the grant treadmill an achievement to be proud of, but arguments against the claim that it's the least bad solution have to go beyond just "it's not good".

How about actually measuring them by the citation count on their papers (note this is already a minor factor in tenure decisions, after monies brought in :P )

Citations are cheap, and they are being gamed all the time. It's like search engine optimization, but on a smaller scale.

Grants are one of the least bad means of evaluating a researcher, because the decisions are not made lightly. Getting funded usually implies that experts have spent a nontrivial amount of time judging the merits of the applicant and their ideas and found them particularly worthy.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#207

Post by deepnotderp »

gruez wrote: post #172
idrios wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biomedical engineer with a 2.977GPA. Lots of extra curriculars, volunteered in labs, 160 credit hours of mostly STEM classes, lots of grad-level courses, relevant work experience, but GPA was 0.023 too low to pass the automated filters and I didn't get into any of the grad programs I applied for. I ended up doing fine in software development though. Also, the Wright Brothers didn't need a research lab to invent fligh…

>Also, the Wright Brothers didn't need a research lab to invent flight. That's only because all the low hanging fruits were still not picked, right? Many discoveries during that time and in the centuries before were done by individuals rather than institutions.

“Everything has already been invented” -1921 and 2021, some things don’t change ;)

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#208

Post by alpineidyll3 »

jltsiren wrote: post #206
alpineidyll3 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about actually measuring them by the citation count on their papers (note this is already a minor factor in tenure decisions, after monies brought in :P )

Citations are cheap, and they are being gamed all the time. It's like search engine optimization, but on a smaller scale. Grants are one of the least bad means of evaluating a researcher, because the decisions are not made lightly. Getting funded usually implies that experts have spent a nontrivial amount of time judging the merits of the applicant and their ideas and found them particularly worthy.

Having gotten grants including the NSF career award. I respectfully disagree lol.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#209

Post by ramraj07 »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #168
ramraj07 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So surprisingly, many of my friends got their first R01s approved in the last year or two. Some actually didn't even have a good publication record or pedigree or institutional position. One even got 3! But was told that the committees are being lenient with first time appplicants. Somehow that feels worse? Like a heroin dealer giving the first shot at a discount? Glad I got out. I'm still hell bent on finding a way…

I'm working to create a community model with a communal research lab. It's meant to meet my needs as a researcher while also removing pressures/norms from capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism. What do you want to research and what's in your way?

That's great! Honestly I'm still navigating more pressing existential crises (like which country and then city to set roots in, if I even have a choice) but after that the plan is to embrace fields that are amenable for cheap amateur experimentation. In that regards, I have some connectomics projects with c. Elegans in mind, followed by evolution with basic cell lines. Depending on answers to aforementioned crises I was planning to be near some big univs so I can mooch off of their inventory control auctions and core facilities as need be and go from there! However if there's actually communities of similar minded people that'll only be great since it'll expand the no. Of topics I can dabble in (which is precisely what you can never ever do in academia contrary to whatever crap they peddle to get you into the system).

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#210

Post by ramraj07 »

the_only_law wrote: post #175
kayhi wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most it is the start up costs.

Yeah I tend to browse eBay and other resellers looking for old engineering / scientific equipment and even for obsolete stuff it often still resells pretty high.

The way I think about it, people own boats, and this still can be cheaper than that hobby!
Post reply on HN