US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins • Hacker News Board

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#361

Post by waterhouse » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:36 AM UTC

onethought wrote: post #358

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

Wait a second. The report was from the WHO not china. WHO have consistently confirmed it is not a lab virus. Or are we saying that the international group that entered china were some how in league with the CCP?

"Senior WHO official dodges questions about Taiwan’s WHO membership; praises China": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlCYFh8U2xM

Japan's deputy prime minister calls the WHO the "Chinese Health Organization": https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2020/04/29/commentary/w...

> are we saying that the international group that entered china were some how in league with the CCP?

There may be reason to expect that they or their superiors are ... biased.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#362

Post by mcguire » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:40 AM UTC

jgalt212 wrote: post #339

fspeech wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments by experts who went on the WHO mission https://mobile.twitter.com/TheaKFischer/status/1360590441817...

Right now, I trust WHO slightly more than I trust CCP. Biden is right to re-engage them, but they have a lot of work to do to get its reputation back. They can probably start by capping payments from any one country as to minimize the effects of soft power. An under-funded WHO is better than a biased WHO.

Note that the WHO has very similar problems to the International Red Cross: if they don't play by the rules of the governments in question, they get kicked out and can't do anything. Something is better than nothing, right?

On the other hand, the WHO after the pandemic had clearly emerged continued to appear biased, seriously damaging its reputation.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#363

Post by blackrock » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:41 AM UTC

mr_toad wrote: post #254

tripletao wrote: post #145

I don't know whether SARS-CoV-2 escaped from a lab. But if it did, then not only is it probably not the first lab-origin pandemic, but it's also not the first time the WHO initially excluded that possibility. The 1977 Russian Flu pandemic was genetically near-identical to a strain from 1950, without the expected mutations that should have appeared after 27 years of undetected circulation among humans or animals. It's…

> how could you possibly not wonder whether our current standards for the sampling and manipulation of poorly-understood pandemic-candidate viruses are adequate? Wait are we looking to improve and make sure that this doesn’t happen again, or do we just want someone to blame so we can continue to do nothing?

The western world just wants to find an excuse to blame the Chinese, so that they can fulfill their wet dreams of invading China, and starting world war 3 with them.

They were even demanding reparations too! If the Chinese didn’t have ICBM nukes to defend themselves, then you can bet that the western nations would’ve mounted a multi-country alliance to attack China by now.

Read up Jack London’s The Unparalled Invasion from 1910. The Grand Master Plan is all laid out right there for you. It’s disgusting. You’ll want to throw up after you read it. But yet, this is how the white people of the western world sees China.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Unparalleled_Invasion

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#364

Post by onethought » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:43 AM UTC

mgamache wrote: post #79

If anyone is tempted to associate 'lab leak' with xenophobia or anti-Chinese sentiment, please remember the WIV lab was in partnership with the U.S. NIH (National Institutes of Health). https://www.biospace.com/article/1nih-awards-ecohealth-allia...

I think there are a couple of conflations in the 'lab leak' meme.

- China intentionally manufactured the virus and released it (Proven false, virus wasn't engineered)

- China accidentally released the virus while collecting it (Possible, but unlikely given the virus has early evidence away from both collection point and Wuhan Lab)

- China has too many wet markets that allowed the virus to mutate enough for human jump (Current consensus working theory, but also unproven as intermediary animal has not been identified)

But all of these list China as the responsible party, so if you want to call it out as not Xenophobia or Anti-China sentiment then you'd have to show evidence the reporting showed "Joint Sino-American research lab causes..." kind of headlines. Otherwise, you point strengthens that this has at least an under current of anti-china sentiment, as the reporting has not mentioned US involvement at all.

WHO of course have a lot to answer for with regards to ignoring Taiwan because if BS geopolitics when they had the most reliable/believable/compelling evidence of the nature of SARS-Cov2

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#365

Post by unishark » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:44 AM UTC

XorNot wrote: post #310

cratermoon wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they had just responded to the outbreak instead of trying to cover it up initially and been a little more open with the international community they would have been lauded for their handling of the situation Are we talking about China or the Trump administration?

Seriously. The amount of concern over what China, at the time regarded as a belligerent untrustworthy power, fails to explain why western governments took so long to take any mitigating measures and then some continued to actively oppose mitigating measures while still insisting this is somehow something China is going to actually fix on their end. The tone and tenor of the investigation has always been to find a way…

> The tone and tenor of the investigation has always been to find a way to absolve local politicians of responsibility for their incompetence in managing this issue by blaming China.

I think you have this backwards. The obsession has always been first and foremost with US domestic politics because so many americans on the internet have an unhealthy obsession with domestic politics. Present discussion is a yet another example.

There's an unsolved mystery we would like to see solved. Specifically right at the heart of one of the most traumatic and pivotal events of our lifetime. Why do you care so much about finding ulterior motives for people interested in that mystery?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#366

Post by eloff » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:46 AM UTC

JoshTko wrote: post #317

eloff wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in these disgusting third-world wet markets That's old information. The first cases of the virus had no connection with the wet market, and no connection could later be found other than it was the first major subsequent point of spreading for the virus. So it's much more likely that people spread it at the market, rather than that it came from there. However, they are indeed disgusting third-world wet markets and t…

Can you share your sources on your key points?

It should be easily found if you search for it.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#367

Post by refenestrator » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:47 AM UTC

unishark wrote: post #365

XorNot wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously. The amount of concern over what China, at the time regarded as a belligerent untrustworthy power, fails to explain why western governments took so long to take any mitigating measures and then some continued to actively oppose mitigating measures while still insisting this is somehow something China is going to actually fix on their end. The tone and tenor of the investigation has always been to find a way…

> The tone and tenor of the investigation has always been to find a way to absolve local politicians of responsibility for their incompetence in managing this issue by blaming China. I think you have this backwards. The obsession has always been first and foremost with US domestic politics because so many americans on the internet have an unhealthy obsession with domestic politics. Present discussion is a yet another…

Because ulterior motives are the best motives!

There's a huge incentive to blame China for our fuckups. Really, it should be assumed unless proven otherwise.

After all, aside from the whole "no evidence" thing, what does it matter if it's a lab accident or a bat bite or whatever? We had months of warning and fucked it up badly. They were blindsided and recovered nicely. Clearly this must be their fault.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#368

Post by s1artibartfast » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:48 AM UTC

refenestrator wrote: post #345

hayst4ck wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are accusing them of building the virus in a lab with literally zero evidence I don't think there is a lot of evidence for malice, but there is definitely evidence worthy of contemplation: https://project-evidence.github.io/ Here is a study from 2007: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2258702/ > In this study, we investigated the receptor usage of the SL-CoV S by combining a human immunodeficiency…

Yes, it's a virus lab and existed for years. The accusation that Covid-19 came from there has no evidence besides "china bad" and "I've seen a lot of movies". I guess I should have specifically said covid-19 rather than "the virus", but I thought that would be clear from context.

The fact that the lab was experimenting with gain of function research on corona viruses and has had viruses escape in the past is not definitive proof, but is evidence.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#369

Post by onethought » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:50 AM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #39

endisneigh wrote: post #21

Forgive my ignorance but even if it was lab created, so what? I don’t really understand why it matters or not. Didn’t the entire world basically have a nearly 3 month heads up on this either way?

That depends. Most countries have ratified the biological weapons treaty. If proven to be lab created, the onus will be on them/whoever to prove that this was not part of a weaponization effort. Not to mention, instant loss of goodwill across the world. Personally, I think the idea of this being lab created by China is far fetched.

Even if it was lab leaked... every country studies viruses it's a HUGE jump to conclude it was a weaponisation effort... The facility is next to one of their largest research universities NOT near its military research facilities.

Would China really do top secret illegal bio-weapons research in a lab essentially open to the public?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#370

Post by refenestrator » Sun, Feb 14, 2021, 4:54 AM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #368

refenestrator wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's a virus lab and existed for years. The accusation that Covid-19 came from there has no evidence besides "china bad" and "I've seen a lot of movies". I guess I should have specifically said covid-19 rather than "the virus", but I thought that would be clear from context.

The fact that the lab was experimenting with gain of function research on corona viruses and has had viruses escape in the past is not definitive proof, but is evidence.

I wouldn't call that evidence. "He's shot a gun before" isn't evidence, and coronaviruses are a pretty broad group as I understand it (not an expert).

This is a densely-populated, agriculture-heavy third-world part of the world that had bird flu and sars in the previous 15 years... random-ass diseases materialize there. Occam's razor says it's another one of those.