Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

wbur.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 293 posts

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#181

Post by neltnerb »

crawfordcomeaux wrote: post #168
ramraj07 wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So surprisingly, many of my friends got their first R01s approved in the last year or two. Some actually didn't even have a good publication record or pedigree or institutional position. One even got 3! But was told that the committees are being lenient with first time appplicants. Somehow that feels worse? Like a heroin dealer giving the first shot at a discount? Glad I got out. I'm still hell bent on finding a way…

I'm working to create a community model with a communal research lab. It's meant to meet my needs as a researcher while also removing pressures/norms from capitalism, colonialism, and imperialism. What do you want to research and what's in your way?

I've heard this dream a few times, and have had it myself. Hazardous waste disposal and storage. This is the big kicker for any research project I might want to do.

Every other expenses after getting that set up is trivial (in comparison) for an individual researcher, though national lab style shared analytical equipment is nice. That can come later though...

It's really hard. It's much simpler to set up a machine shop or similar, but then it's just a new hackerspace that there are good models for already.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#182

Post by nexthash »

The academic process at a research university from student to researcher to professor is cutthroat. There are so many obstacles in the way: classes designed to weed you out, GPA requirements, the grad school application process, financial instability as a PHD candidate, difficult job opportunities after the doctorate, fighting for funding and tenure, and more. Major reform is needed to progress science, because the current system is a failure pipeline that hurts both researchers and the university (which is shooting itself in the foot).

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#183

Post by ghaff »

ghaff wrote: post #81
bnralt wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like this is exactly the kind of thing that a government is useful for. Why not have more publicly funded research institutions that employ them, and put them to work on useful research without having them worry about grant considerations, teaching classes, or the publishing treadmill?

It sounds like you're replacing grant writing with a win the government research funding for life lottery which obviously an improvement. That said, there is some of that in the national labs although they need to worry about program funding like everywhere else. (Though military programs in particular are pretty secure.)

Which is not obviously an improvement.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#184

Post by mcguire »

alpineidyll3 wrote: post #150
usrusr wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is what would be the alternative to grant applications. A grant lottery?Tenure lottery? Stop funding entirely and just include "dear God, make our science advance" in your evening prayer? Nobody considers the grant treadmill an achievement to be proud of, but arguments against the claim that it's the least bad solution have to go beyond just "it's not good".

How about actually measuring them by the citation count on their papers (note this is already a minor factor in tenure decisions, after monies brought in :P )

Has a bit of a problem for them as don't have many papers yet.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#185

Post by icelancer »

gruez wrote: post #172
idrios wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Biomedical engineer with a 2.977GPA. Lots of extra curriculars, volunteered in labs, 160 credit hours of mostly STEM classes, lots of grad-level courses, relevant work experience, but GPA was 0.023 too low to pass the automated filters and I didn't get into any of the grad programs I applied for. I ended up doing fine in software development though. Also, the Wright Brothers didn't need a research lab to invent fligh…

>Also, the Wright Brothers didn't need a research lab to invent flight. That's only because all the low hanging fruits were still not picked, right? Many discoveries during that time and in the centuries before were done by individuals rather than institutions.

>> That's only because all the low hanging fruits were still not picked, right?

There's plenty of low hanging fruit as the industry grows wide.

While any given industry is subject to the asymptotic curve of progress, innovations in human biology have been incredibly slow due to bureaucracy and IRB slowdowns + grant model.

Human-powered flight wasn't considered a really good idea at the time of the Wright Brothers either, and many people died in the decades following it. It's only in hindsight these ideas seem obvious.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#186

Post by GlennS »

idrios wrote: post #51
thayne wrote: post #29

I am a casualty of this. I was originally intending to follow an academic career, until I discovered that my career would be dependent on my ability to secure grants. Something that if I was not bad at (which I think is unlikely), would at least be extremely stressful for me. It isn't the only reason I decided to to switch to being a software engineer, but it is a major reason.

Biomedical engineer with a 2.977GPA. Lots of extra curriculars, volunteered in labs, 160 credit hours of mostly STEM classes, lots of grad-level courses, relevant work experience, but GPA was 0.023 too low to pass the automated filters and I didn't get into any of the grad programs I applied for. I ended up doing fine in software development though. Also, the Wright Brothers didn't need a research lab to invent fligh…

So I'm no in the US so not familiar with your GPA system, but couldn't you just take one more class which you knew you'd do well at to push that over the line?

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#187

Post by GlennS »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #47

Wow, there is a lot of negativity towards science in this thread. Um, yeah, it could be better. But it's mostly a matter of personal courage. Of course institutional funding is not the best incentive for the best science. Good science comes from courageous individuals in courageous communities. Not financial incentives. Good science takes courage.

The point is that there is a system designed to produce science, and it has significant flaws and lots of room for improvement.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#188

Post by a_bonobo »

vinay427 wrote: post #53
weinzierl wrote: post #49

This reminds me if the story of Biontech cofounder and CEO Uğur Şahin. Being an immigrant child in Germany his teacher would no recommend him for high school despite his good grades. Şahin said that he only ended up in high school because a neighbor of his intervened at the school.

For those who are unaware of the German system, "high school" here presumably means the "Gymnasium" or similar track that prepares students for higher education, as opposed to the vocational dual education track that includes vocational schooling and apprenticeships. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_education_system

Yes, you're right, the German system is a bit weird.

In a nutshell:

At the end of primary school your primary teacher recommends whether you should go to Hauptschule, Realschule, or Gymnasium. H. and R. ends after year 10 after which you're supposed to go to vocational school, but you can also switch to G if you're good enough. G ends after year 13 after which you can go to vocational school or university. H and R cannot go to university after year 10, they have to switch to G.

The primary school teacher's recommendation is usually not binding but most people follow it. There's a lot of proven bias against children of immigrants. For example, often these kids' language skills in primary school are poor leading to generally poor grades, but that could be fixed with a bit of extra work. But the teachers often don't have time or patience for that, there's no extra money for additional private teaching, so off to Hauptschule or Realschule it is.

Edit: A German-language paper comparing migration background, social standing of parents, and post-primary school recommendation is here: https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/60033/1/717884732.pd...

In this data, the social standing/education of the parents has a big impact too, children of immigrant parents who went to higher education have an equally high recommendation to go to G., while kids of parents who had worse education do much worse in the post-primary school recommendations

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#189

Post by count_chockula »

Clickbait. All these normative comments sound similar. They don't call it work for nothing. Stellar scientists make breakthroughs regardless of obstacles. Just because you get a piled high and deep doesn't mean you are capable of breakthroughs. Not everyone is stellar.

Re: Our brutal science system almost cost us a pioneer of mRNA vaccines

#190

Post by reasonabl_human »

mathgladiator wrote: post #101

As a math person and technical person, I find myself so glad that I stayed out of academics and dropped out of my masters program to start a company. This story is exceptionally inspiring because it speaks that we need people that are passionate to focus without worry of basics. We need true believers to throw their lives at a hard problem. The challenge is money. It is so easy to waste. It is so easy to squander on…

Curious to know more about your career journey, have you written about it somewhere before?

Currently discerning career path and am sure to face a number of the decisions you’ve navigated successfully

Post reply on HN