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US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

reuters.com

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Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#241

Post by nickysielicki »

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

To me, both the official explanation and the conspiracy theory are both embarrassing for China and the CCP. SARS was supposed to have originated the same way -- in these disgusting third-world wet markets. The CCP shut them down after SARS for the sake of optics, but was too inept to "up" their health standards, and they conceded to pressure and reopened the disgusting third-world wet markets again.

If this was some sort of lab mistake, as the conspiracy angle suggests, IMO that's much less embarrassing. In the "real" explanation, thousands of mainlanders are regularly eating food contaminated with bat shit, with zero health standards. In the "conspiracy", they're a first-world country doing groundbreaking science, and an accident occurred.

I think they're probably telling the truth.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#242

Post by nsajko »

enchiridion wrote: post #214
btilly wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we / did we even have the tech co be able to build this in a lab? I don't think we do. A random virus, no. This one, we do. We can't build a virus from scratch. But we can combine pieces of different viruses to build a new one. The same thing also happens naturally when an animal is sick with 2 viruses at once. If both get into the same cell, you get various mixes created and sometimes a mixture will turn out to b…

At that point it's just a theory, not a conspiracy theory

"What Is a Theory?" - https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/darwin/evolution-today/what...

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#243

Post by fiftyfifty »

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

The funny thing in this case is there was no reason for the CCP to cover this up. If they had just responded to the outbreak instead of trying to cover it up initially and been a little more open with the international community they would have been lauded for their handling of the situation.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#244

Post by mr_toad »

mgamache wrote: post #4

Related: China refused to provide WHO team with raw data on early COVID cases, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-ch...

Release of raw patient data to international researchers from most countries would be unusual, and even if a strong case were made it would have to undergo ethics committee approval, which would take months.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#245

Post by musicale »

rossdavidh wrote: post #14

So, perhaps there is a valid reason for China to refuse to give the raw data on early COVID-19 victims to the WHO, but I have to say, as a reader who's never been particularly impressed by the possibility of it being lab-created, I have to say this is not a good look for China.

It doesn't have to be lab-created if you're simply bitten by a bat.

Does anyone know whether this story (including video and photos is credible?

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4102619

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#246

Post by mythrwy »

specialist wrote: post #162
kergonath wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They want the WHO to be honest. And they aren't They are working with what they have, which comes from governments and governmental health agencies. If they don’t have information, they say ‘we don’t know’, even though everyone knows that the most likely scenario involves emergence in China. If one wants them to be able to coerce information out of China, then by definition it would need to be more powerful.

Agreed. Government is just people trying to do triage, discern signal from noise, coordination, move the ball forward... with a bunch of other people. People expect too much. It's amazing anything works at all. We should all marvel at the progress we've somehow achieved thus far. While striving too do better, of course.

You have a much more charitable view of those in government then I do.

The motivation you suggest may apply to some people, sometimes, in some places but certainly not all people in all governments much and perhaps even most of the time.

Self interest, corruption, the desire for power, the desire for conquest and theft and a complete disregard for their citizenry and indeed humanity in general are unfortunately all too common with those who get into the governance business.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#247

Post by hayst4ck »

refenestrator wrote: post #222
f430 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the CCP is innocent why not prove it to the world by sharing their data? Why hide things?

Because there's no upside and guaranteed downside. People are accusing them of building the virus in a lab with literally zero evidence. Give the US a bunch of raw data to spin and it just makes that easier.

I don't think that's a very enlightened perspective.

Maybe with people like Trump in the world who would definitely capitalize on that type of thing to cast blame there is inherent risk, but at least amongst civilized educated people, its obvious a virus could show up anywhere and disseminating information shows a clear desire to fight the virus as a member of the world, rather than a desire to use it as a political tool or to gain an advantage because china can execute more draconian mitigation measures than a "free" country like America would be able to.

Where China is clearly to blame is the reduced amount of information clearly inhibited the fight against coronavirus, in the world's fight against this thing china defected rather than cooperated.

Before any whataboutism is mentioned, Trump also defected and made a mess out of a response, lying to the public, and hiding cases. That doesn't make either correct and neither one justifies the other's actions. Both countries are clearly very in the wrong for their COVID reactions.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#248

Post by pbourke »

Udik wrote: post #225
bottled_poe wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It disingenuous and lazy to make broad statements of equivalence like this. There are very obvious differences in how the world’s governments operate.

Oh yes? Shall we trust the US government in a good investigation on their motives to finance the bloody disaster that is the civil war in Syria? How about we send a Chinese delegation to check the documents inside the Pentagon or the CIA?

If you vote for the right people, and advocate enough, you can get a congressional inquiry into the issue, a change in the law, or a precedent-setting court ruling. Point me to analogous outcomes under the Chinese system.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#249

Post by herpderperator »

bluepirate wrote: post #235

Um I shared analysis 15 days ago from a doctor who did an in-depth analysis and determined it to be from a lab. My post got one comment. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25965751

From the site:

Caution: Potentially Misleading Contents

Substantial peer feedback has been received that this record does not follow the norms of scientific rigour or balance, and thus the main claims may not stand the test of scientific scrutiny.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#250

Post by nsajko »

renewiltord wrote: post #160
getpolarized wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we / did we even have the tech co be able to build this in a lab? I don't think we do. It MIGHT have been possible but Occam's Razor says it's more plausible it evolved naturally and just jumped species. FAR FAR FAR more plausible.

You can, with your own body, the right drug regimen, and starting with just garden variety TB and no skills whatsoever, "build" XDR TB. The general evidence is this is yet another reason why wet markets are terrible for humanity, not that it was made in a lab and got away. But you can build lots of things.

This is what the acronyms stand for, in case it's not apparent: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensively_drug-resistant_tub...
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