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The Kotlin Foundation

kotlinlang.org

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Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#161

Post by listenallyall »

chrisseaton wrote: post #84
peheje wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But... When Java gets "properly engineered solution" for async code... Kotlin got it as well!

So why bother using Kotlin? Seems like it fixes trivial things (makes simple classes a bit more terse) but retains the more fundamental problems and hangs on for Java to actually fix those.

If Kotlin's only improvement over Java were its scope functions, that alone would be an overwhelmingly good reason to migrate. Scope functions are awesome, cannot stress that enough.

Kotlin syntax makes writing functional code beautiful and simple... map and fold and filter are so much easier to write than in any other language that also have the same functions, such as JS. Again, that alone would be enough to migrate.

But there are still so many more simple, but incredibly useful functions like SubstringAfterLast which takes a nasty, ugly Split function into a beautiful, precise line of code. Just one example of many.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#162

Post by cambalache »

nindalf wrote: post #149
cnl wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pro-Googlers are out in force today, also in the "visionary" Python topic. FYI, often it is not possible to mention specifics because "open" source projects tightly control member opinions these days.

Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.

> Thanks for the ad hominem attack. FYI, I have no google stock, never worked for google, have never contributed to a google open source project. If they’re supposed to be paying me for pointing out common sense on this thread ... they’re late on their payment.

If this is true (I doubt it) it is even sadder

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#163

Post by pjmlp »

Pxtl wrote: post #150
pjmlp wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google as Kotlin's Godfather is stagnating Android Java on purpose, on the proper JVM we don't have such constraints.

Can't really blame Google for deciding to move away from Java after the Oracle lawsuit.

Oracle has done the right thing to smash Google's own J++.

Google had a easy way out after screwing up Sun, buy it.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#164

Post by piokoch »

MikeTheGreat wrote: post #158
MikeDelta wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read an article in the FT recently saying that a new batch of startups is looking at competing with Google in the search-engine field [0]. [0] https://www.ft.com/content/24efc152-a65d-4c48-9032-ee349a2c8...

Sorry for the off-topic post: Is there a good way to get non-paywalled access to this? It says I can read it if I register but today that's just one step too many for me ("_Another_ account? Really? sigh " :) ) I'm kinda curious to know why anyone is trying to start a new search engine(s), given both Google and Bing. (But apparently not curious enough to give my email address to Yet Another Website :) )

Copy title, paste into search engine box and access from the search engine list. It seems FT wants to get the traffic and the indexing more than money from subscription.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#165

Post by pjmlp »

tadfisher wrote: post #125
pjmlp wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life experience of seeing guest languages come and go, during the last 30 years, and never succeeding in the goal to replace platform languages. On the contrary, platform languages slowly acquire the relevant features of the shiny languages, which eventually either fade away or find a niche for survival. Kotlin will be relevant as long as Android exists, that is all.

Scala, Clojure, and Groovy are all mature languages that haven't gone anywhere. No one has a goal of replacing Java, and they all benefit from improvements to the JVM.

Mere blips on the Java eco-system, why do you think Typesafe has pivoted into Lightbend and now also does Java projects?

Gradle and Google choosing it for Android are the only things that keeps Groovy still relevant.

As for Clojure, it is its own thing, plugging into the host platforms.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#167

Post by kitd »

johnnycerberus wrote: post #48
davnicwil wrote: post #22

A question for HN - I like Java a lot for the ‘http API talking to SQL database’ usecase, with my goto for that being dropwizard or spring boot. I’ve only ever looked at Kotlin code in blogposts, haven’t ever actually used it. I’m probably at least a few years behind on its feature set, but I am aware of all the great features Java has added in that timeframe, many no doubt inspired by Kotlin! Would you advise me to…

Kotlin never appealed to backend developers (based on job ads, new open-source projects in the domain). Data pipelines, concurrency and streaming are becoming more and more part of what a backend dev should know. Instead, I've noticed that Scala is used in many systems where Java historically was less ergonomic for the task. Spark, Delta, Deequ, Scio, Finagle, Flink, Kafka, the Typelevel & ZIO ecosystems, Akka are so…

Kafka (or rather Confluent) is actually moving parts of its code base to Java.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#168

Post by pjmlp »

brabel wrote: post #138
_old_dude_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> JVM can't do dynamic dispatch on multiple arguments It can since Java 7, the instruction invokedynamic was added for this kind of stuff. The implementation for Pattern Matching (the project Amber) [1] will use the very same instruction. [1] https://cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/amber/pattern-match-...

Groovy has done dynamic dispatch this way for a decade now.

And if it wasn't for Gradle, it would have been forgotten for now.

The language that was supposed to replace Java in JEE and Spring.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#169

Post by johnnycerberus »

ta988 wrote: post #47
pjmlp wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost 10 years ago Pivotal was doing exactly the same with Groovy, Scala and Clojure, where are Spring Groovy/Scala/Clojure 10 years later?

I don't think any of these language efforts went anywhere near the support Kotlin now has in Spring. Doesn't mean it will not fail, but it is already further than any other..

I remember many years ago when Pivotal's website was featuring a module for Spring Scala saying something about concise API and other functional buzzwords. The same for Groovy, earlier.

Re: The Kotlin Foundation

#170

Post by pjmlp »

dehrmann wrote: post #104
lokedhs wrote: post #99

I started using Java in the 90's and worked for Sun back in the day, so I have a reasonable amount of experience with it. Kotlin is a much better Java, and these days if I need to use the JVM, I will use Kotlin. However, I do feel that there is a huge missed opportunity in making something that is not just a better Java, but a better language. Kotlin has a lot of annoying limitations, almost all of which are there be…

> Another thing I'd like to see changed is better support for DSL's I keep waiting for a good solution for SQL in Java (or another language) that isn't a builder or a string with templating. I don't like what React does architecturally, but JSX shows how mixing languages in an elegant-ish way can be huge.

We had that in the past, SQLJ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SQLJ

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