US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins • Hacker News Board

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#121

Post by ssss11 » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

The WHO needs to be credible and trustworthy as an impartial source of truth otherwise it is not required.

Unfortunately this particular topic is heavily politically-loaded and CCP’s track record of handling the virus leads the common person to believe the WHO won’t receive the full information.

In this case the WHO’s hands seem tied. How are they supposed to fix that? (Genuine question, I would like the WHO to be able to fulfill its role well and serve the global public good)

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#122

Post by ganoushoreilly » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #54

renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

>China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. Do you have any reason to believe that this is true?

The past 14 or so months?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#123

Post by phyalow » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:07 PM UTC

jeswin wrote: post #39

endisneigh wrote: post #21

Forgive my ignorance but even if it was lab created, so what? I don’t really understand why it matters or not. Didn’t the entire world basically have a nearly 3 month heads up on this either way?

That depends. Most countries have ratified the biological weapons treaty. If proven to be lab created, the onus will be on them/whoever to prove that this was not part of a weaponization effort. Not to mention, instant loss of goodwill across the world. Personally, I think the idea of this being lab created by China is far fetched.

I used to think it was far fetched too, however applying Occams Razor and taking a read of this incredibly well researched article swayed me https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/coronavirus-lab-esca... it would be worth your time.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#124

Post by SV_BubbleTime » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #54

renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

>China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. Do you have any reason to believe that this is true?

Remember that time a high up WHO representative was asked about COVID in Taiwan and he faked the video call freezing and disconnected? Then remember when they got him back he was again asked about Taiwan and said they had already discussed China?

I remember thinking that the WHO wasn’t what it seemed. Just one small example of course.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#125

Post by throwaway54095 » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

It's crazy that at this point we still keep with this delusion. Of course this is a lab virus. This info is getting old:

https://project-evidence.github.io/

https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-origins-genome-analy...

Who was really behind this, and the whole history of it, is something surely we won't know for know.

"When war is declared, truth is the first casualty"

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#126

Post by alisonatwork » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #69

f430 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the CCP is innocent why not prove it to the world by sharing their data? Why hide things?

In modern discourse we use the acronym CPC rather than CCP. Unless of course you are intentionally invoking red scare era politics. Edit: ah rip karma. who was I kidding. Why would you ever promote neutral discourse when you can take sides.

I find this a really fascinating instance of micro-propaganda. CCP could evoke associations with "CCCP", but CPC might remind Americans of the Congressional Progressive Caucus or Canadians of the Conservative Party of Canada. It could be that neither acronym is especially neutral, not after surfacing the accusation that using one is implicitly biased. I have to admit to having used both acronyms in the past, but it was never for any malicious reason, it was just to try create continuity with other people in the discussion.

The funny thing is that people in China use neither of these acronyms, they just refer to "the government" or "the party". This is probably the safest terminology to avoid being seen as biased one way or the other.

What's so interesting to me, is that even your choice of a three letter acronym, which literally means the exact same thing just with a different word order, is considered to be taking a side. It goes to show just how fraught conversation on China has become that it's even considered important.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#127

Post by kergonath » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:08 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #102

kergonath wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mask early, serious lockdown as soon as it becomes serious, and don’t end lockdowns before numbers are way low. We masked late, put lockdowns in place late if at all, and ended them way too early, which means that some countries went through several ones. And we’re not through yet. That said, I don’t share the optimism of the parent poster. This would be a heavy burden in terms of freedom and human rights for a resul…

>> If the Western world would have done what the WHO advised at the time, we all more or less would have a COVID stuation like the Chinese have for some time. > Mask early Are we living in the same timeline? https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1243972193169616898 https://twitter.com/UNGeneva/status/1244661916535930886 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1234095938555260929 https://twitter.com/WHO/status/1234871709091667969 htt…

Right, yes, that was early March. The guidelines evolved as more information became available and they released new advice in early April, which is far from ideal but better than a lot of governments reactions.

Their official stance before that was rigorous test, isolate, and trace, which was not done seriously anywhere outside China.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#128

Post by zepto » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

foolmeonce wrote: post #114

I think the WHO did a fine job of writing it up. The US motive for proving China is at fault is largely political diversion from the US' mishandling, which would be mishandling no matter what origin. That China blocked the Who's efforts and the WHO disclosed this is more relevant to future health policy than where this particular outbreak started. (Do we really want the public health system to tune to this specific s…

> The US motive for proving China is at fault is largely political diversion from the US' mishandling, which would be mishandling no matter what origin.

Whether this is motivation is true or not has nothing to do with whether the WHO report reflects reality.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#129

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

f430 wrote: post #8

If the CCP have nothing to hide then why do they do everything they possibly can to hide things from the rest of the world?

Surveillance and covert activity launched from the US and Western Europe is not done openly. If a US government agency discovered a US origin for covid-19 tomorrow, do you seriously think you'd hear about it, or that it would ever be reported in a mainstream media outlet? If it escaped from a US lab, they knew it at the time, and had no way of stopping domestic spread, do you think that US agencies would be above covertly also releasing it in Wuhan as cover, and getting Chinese assets to report about suspicious deaths on social media? China is secretive about important things, and the West is secretive about important things.

To be clear, these scenarios are entirely and spontaneously made up, but they're also entirely possible, and we've fallen into the trap of believing any old bullshit about China simply because it's possible, and reconciling our spreading it and our obvious ignorance with racist "inscrutable Chinese" tropes.

The reason we don't know more about China is not because they're quiet, the reason we don't know about China is because we ban and censor media coming from China (just as they do to us, but moreso.) Somehow it's become mainstream to believe that the public shouldn't know what the Chinese government thinks (or the Russian government, or the Iranian government) and that it's better to rely on rumor and retired generals.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#130

Post by willis936 » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 8:09 PM UTC

elif wrote: post #99

willis936 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t a promotion of neutral discourse. The party didn’t change, why would the name?

So calling things by their preferred name is not neutral? This is like making a statement about the demonrats and expecting to be taken seriously. It has the intellectual power of intentionally misgendering someone as a means of insulting them. There is a reason that neoconservatives like Mike Pompeo are revitalizing your preferred acronym.

The fundamental reason that names are considered important right now is because they are tied to expressed identity. Has the CCP’s expressed identity changed?

Recall when BP changed their logo last: months after a horrible oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. The singular reason why BP changed their logo was an attempt to trick the public. It wasn’t a changing of identity. Changing the CCP’s name when they haven’t even done it themselves would be the same kind of disingenuousness.