US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins • Hacker News Board

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#61

Post by jeswin » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:22 PM UTC

f430 wrote: post #8

If the CCP have nothing to hide then why do they do everything they possibly can to hide things from the rest of the world?

The domestic narrative in China is that the virus is of foreign origin, with the CCP press strongly suggesting that it's of US origin - eg:[1].

The truth probably is that they know it originated (from animals) in China, and don't want the WHO to officially reach that conclusion. That's not particularly damaging to most countries, but in a communist country with tightly controlled information flow, the citizenry isn't shown a government making mistakes.

1: https://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1183658.shtml

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#62

Post by katbyte » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #21

Forgive my ignorance but even if it was lab created, so what? I don’t really understand why it matters or not. Didn’t the entire world basically have a nearly 3 month heads up on this either way?

If it was leaked in oct that’s far earlier then it making it out into general knowledge in Ja. But granted that doesn’t mean the world would have acted, still took most of it till like March to do anything about it lol

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#63

Post by mgamache » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

jchook wrote: post #52

Related: Scientists found SARS-CoV-2 antibodies in US blood samples taken from December 2019 to January 2020 https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... Edit: removed incorrect conclusion

That's not what is suggests: "These findings suggest that SARS-CoV-2 may have been introduced into the United States prior to January 19, 2020."

Without Chinese data the origin will remain a mystery.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#64

Post by ttz » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:23 PM UTC

bsd44 wrote: post #57

ttz wrote: post #53

First gen Chinese, grew up in NA. Have contact with relatives "on the ground". My own experience: Don't ever trust the Chinese government on issues that could potentially involve the reputation of the party. Note that I'm not saying don't trust what CCP says, ever (sometimes they actually do good things) - just not on issues that involve anything to do with how the world might perceive them. Which is exactly what thi…

Well if you say so then it must be true. I mean this is internet after all.

Not sure where in my post it postulates anything about "truth". The entire point of the post is to say, we don't know the truth, but in the balance of probabilities, I wouldn't trust the CCP's version.

Did you even read what I wrote, or are you just knee jerking?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#65

Post by danbolt » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:25 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #27

jayd16 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is withdrawal going to do? Why not work to get it right instead?

Conversely what good is it belonging to an organization which has no agency and does whatever it’s told to do? Better form a new org that is apolitical and concerns itself with promulgating health and disease prevention rather than some political agenda?

What do you feel an apolitical organization would look like on the world stage?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#66

Post by renewiltord » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

methodsignature wrote: post #42

renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

Sure, if data from US would be enough to understand and fight disease. Otherwise, you need to create some sort of world health organization to share meaningful data and investigate inside all country participant without the appearance of [or actual] invasion of sovereignty. Thus, we have the WHO. You wanna replace it, it's gonna take a decade to get to another agreement if one even is made. Then it will have its own…

We don't need it for this. Intelligence organizations know that biological threats like this are intelligence problems. They just didn't think them likely or that the sick guy would be our enemy.

However, now we know the adversary is truly an adversary. China will suppress information on pandemics started within its borders.

The game has changed. You don't listen to China about whether China is sick. You listen to Keyhole and your guys on the ground.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#67

Post by kergonath » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

katbyte wrote: post #56

the-dude wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the WHO press briefings in about the first month. If the Western world would have done what the WHO advised at the time, we all more or less would have a COVID stuation like the Chinese have for some time.

Could you elaborate on what that situation is?

Mask early, serious lockdown as soon as it becomes serious, and don’t end lockdowns before numbers are way low. We masked late, put lockdowns in place late if at all, and ended them way too early, which means that some countries went through several ones. And we’re not through yet.

That said, I don’t share the optimism of the parent poster. This would be a heavy burden in terms of freedom and human rights for a result that is far from certain. There have been some resurgences, the extent of which is of course unknown because the truth would be damageable to China. And there is no knowing whether the next variant would start it all over again, in which it would be back to square one.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#68

Post by mgamache » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:27 PM UTC

sjg007 wrote: post #47

If it was lab created independent scientists would be able to figure it out and there would be evidence that it was. But it looks like there is not: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9 Now maybe the virus mutated from those initial 174 cases but that's unlikely. China does have a narrative that covid19 reinfections are coming from imported frozen foods though so I'm not sure why they are pushing that an…

Firstly that was in March. Secondly it discounts the serial passage research which leaves little genetic evidence. All the potential sources are unlikely, so why discount a lab accident?

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#69

Post by elif » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

f430 wrote: post #17

mgamache wrote: post #4

Related: China refused to provide WHO team with raw data on early COVID cases, https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who-ch...

If the CCP is innocent why not prove it to the world by sharing their data? Why hide things?

In modern discourse we use the acronym CPC rather than CCP. Unless of course you are intentionally invoking red scare era politics.

Edit: ah rip karma. who was I kidding. Why would you ever promote neutral discourse when you can take sides.

Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins

#70

Post by renewiltord » Sat, Feb 13, 2021, 7:28 PM UTC

kergonath wrote: post #59

renewiltord wrote: post #5

The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…

There is no winning with you... Of course it cannot be too powerful, because then nationalists would scream bloody murder and refuse to have anything to do with it. The WHO is a forum to coordinate strategy and exchange information. Obviously, this requires a minimum of good faith, which seems to be difficult for some countries (yes, particularly dictatorships). But even then, it is better to have them within, collab…

I don't think anyone wants the WHO to be powerful. They want the WHO to be honest. And they aren't. But that isn't the WHO's fault or anyone working there. It's a property of what the WHO is.