I am yet to see a single piece of evidence which rules out the lab leak hypothesis. Meanwhile the circumstantial evidence in favour of that hypothesis (including China’s behaviour) continues to pile up. We may never discover the truth, but I really hope we do.
US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
31–40 of 664 posts
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was from early last year and really focuses on Pangolins which have been downgraded as a zoonotic source. Serial Passage is the most likely source (as all sources are low probability).
The thing is they claimed it originated from the seafood market yet couple blocks across the street there was a BS4 bio lab literally working with the materials. It's amazing so many people will just take CCP's narrative at face value, there are still many that think it came from the seafood market. Nature has lied to protect the CCP before: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/asia/china-springer...
In the first few weeks the main source of info was the CCP and well known virologists. Both have conflicts of interest.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#33Boo. The Americans need to shut up or actual provide evidence for their outrageous claim that the virus escaped from a lab.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#34The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…
You mean primary sources like the program that had US scientists embedded in Chinese laboratories that Trump dismantled in 2019? Also, you clearly don’t understand what the WHO does and how critical it has been in the reduction and even eradication of disease spread across the world over decades. Further, the WHO, much like most multilateral organizations is dependent on its member states for strength. When the most…
Okay, I'm happy to amend to "The WHO is useless for information on novel disease spread". That's what I intended anyway but clearly did not constrain the sentence correctly.
Yeah, I'm sure as a multilateral platform for cooperation on things that everyone wants done they're good.
But as an information source for novel epidemics, clearly we should use our spy sats.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
We simply don't know the author's connection to the CCP. Why not share that publicly as to add credibility to their claims? Not the first time Nature was caught covering for the CCP: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/asia/china-springer... Why are all the criticisms of CCP downvoted and flagged on HN?
Conspiracy theories regarding genetically engineered viruses don't do well here.
You should understand what Serial Passage and Gain of Function is. It's using natural selection in a lab and not easily detected. It was also a type of research that was being done at that lab. The paper addresses Serial Passage in the last part.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is withdrawal going to do? Why not work to get it right instead?
Conversely what good is it belonging to an organization which has no agency and does whatever it’s told to do? Better form a new org that is apolitical and concerns itself with promulgating health and disease prevention rather than some political agenda?
That's literally the whole point of the WHO. Leaving it would mean either a) starting a "new" version and asking all the same people to join it (which seems to be what you're suggesting; what purpose would that serve?) or b) having no forum at all for global coordination over health crises.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#37The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…
I watched the WHO press briefings in about the first month.
If the Western world would have done what the WHO advised at the time, we all more or less would have a COVID stuation like the Chinese have for some time.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
This was from early last year and really focuses on Pangolins which have been downgraded as a zoonotic source. Serial Passage is the most likely source (as all sources are low probability).
The thing is they claimed it originated from the seafood market yet couple blocks across the street there was a BS4 bio lab literally working with the materials. It's amazing so many people will just take CCP's narrative at face value, there are still many that think it came from the seafood market. Nature has lied to protect the CCP before: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/01/world/asia/china-springer...
I don't know what happened obviously, and I'm not really wishing for any theory to win (lab or nature). But I've read Chinese virology labs were made in partnership with France and french experts/teachers said many safety protocols were not fully applied.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#39Forgive my ignorance but even if it was lab created, so what? I don’t really understand why it matters or not. Didn’t the entire world basically have a nearly 3 month heads up on this either way?
That depends. Most countries have ratified the biological weapons treaty. If proven to be lab created, the onus will be on them/whoever to prove that this was not part of a weaponization effort. Not to mention, instant loss of goodwill across the world.
Personally, I think the idea of this being lab created by China is far fetched.
Re: US raises ‘deep concerns’ over WHO report on Covid’s Wuhan origins
#40The WHO is a useless organization. For political reasons, it will be necessary to engage, but hopefully US authorities will not treat it as an information source. The US should use its own primary sources in future to evaluate disease spread. China will lie to the WHO and the WHO will protect it. But to know the truth, we should use our modern equivalents of Key Hole. There is no truth but that which you have examine…
You mean primary sources like the program that had US scientists embedded in Chinese laboratories that Trump dismantled in 2019? Also, you clearly don’t understand what the WHO does and how critical it has been in the reduction and even eradication of disease spread across the world over decades. Further, the WHO, much like most multilateral organizations is dependent on its member states for strength. When the most…
Has the WHO really been that critical or are we ascribing successes to them that are really the result of business and technological innovation? At least in the recent decade or two, they seem to consistently be bad at their job and mired in politics. Even before the coronavirus there were issues like their failures in managing the Ebola outbreak (https://time.com/4123858/ebola-crisis-who-response-failure/).