Live data from Hacker News

New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

sciencenorway.no

121–130 of 148 posts

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#121
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always wondered if the reason a daily aspirin prevents heart attacks isn't because it prevents clotting, but because it's an anti-inflammatory.

If true then aspirins may be just as useful as statins while being cheaper and safer. (But you won't see anyone funding a clinical trial to prove this, any time soon!)

If you can't patent it, you can't fund it. I don't know if aspirin ever had a patent, but if it did it ran out 100 years ago.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But dietary cholesterol itself only comes from animal products, which is probably why the Dr. said to cut out all animal products.

What I have found and read recently-ish about as well is that dietery cholesterol will actually not have any bad effect on the cholesterol in your bloodstream. If I eat eggs and bacon my cholesterol basically stays the same as if I don't and my body just manufactures more of the bad stuff. https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/how-its-made-cho... > In fact, cholesterol production is so important that your liver…

This is not true for all people, sensitivity to dietary cholesterol intake is individually variable. My cholesterol responds very strongly to dietary cholesterol intake, when I do not eat eggs yolk, shrimp etc, my cholesterol is close to ideal. When I do eat them my numbers go extremely high and I am recommended to take a statin. I am in my 40s and this has been very consistent since I was in my 20s. If you read more studies related to this you will find that there are absolutely populations of dietary cholesterol responders and non-responders.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that high cholesterol is a cause of heart disease rather than a mere correlation because people with genetic Hypercholesterolemia have a rate of heart disease 10-20x that of the general population, independent of other risk factors: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/06/01...

Do we know that people with hypercholesterolemia don't just have a heart/blood vessel/metabolic defect that also causes high cholesterol?

By definition, Familial Hypercholesterolemia is a genetic defect of the receptor responsible for clearing cholesterol-containing droplets from the blood.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#124
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Lustig is right that fructose (half of common sugar) is responsible for a variety of ills: exactly the ones Americans die of, by the millions. There is a lot of Lustig material on youtube, all of it excellent, all thoroughly grounded in rigorous experimental science. We need more Robert Lustigs. The normal metabolic route is that excess fructose, beyond what the liver can afford to process immediately or store…

I'd expect taking statins to then increase risk of heart failure, were it that simple.

Taking statins causes other problems, instead.

More particularly, permanent muscle damage.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#125
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Lustig is right that fructose (half of common sugar) is responsible for a variety of ills: exactly the ones Americans die of, by the millions. There is a lot of Lustig material on youtube, all of it excellent, all thoroughly grounded in rigorous experimental science. We need more Robert Lustigs. The normal metabolic route is that excess fructose, beyond what the liver can afford to process immediately or store…

But aren't statins successful in preventing heart disease, in clinical trials? My understanding was that other classes of medicine that reduce serum cholesterol levels have shown no effects on heart disease in clinical trials.

Sadly, no. Statins have been successful at preventing Nth heart attacks, N>1, with some evidence of preventing first heart attacks in people badly at risk, i.e. already with heart disease. It is far from clear how that works.

Vendors have eagerly sought for any hint of evidence of preventing heart disease, or anything else, for decades, and have come up empty. That does not stop physicians from prescribing statins for slightly elevated cholesterol. Pharmaceutical companies love drugs like statins that don't cure anything, so you have to take them every month, forever. They have proven very skilled at manipulating the opinions of medical doctors, e.g. scandalously in the case recent case of opioids.

Making your liver ignore signals to produce the cholesterol your body needs to function is a very bad idea, on par with irradiating your thymus gland when it becomes enlarged (which was done, and recently! Your thymus gland is part of your immune system, enlarged when it is working.)

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think specifying meat vs other sources is more of an inaccuracy thing and can be corrected easily without involving interpretations. "eats healthy" on the other hand is an exercise in assigning values to one way of eating over another. If you talk to a keto guy and you tell him you "eat healthy too" he might assume you're doing keto too. Talk to a vegan they probably think you're vegan as well etc. :)

Well, we know they don't eat like a pig, stocking their mouth with burgers and fries and deep fried mars bars. That's something...

A burger can be healthy.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We know that high cholesterol is a cause of heart disease rather than a mere correlation because people with genetic Hypercholesterolemia have a rate of heart disease 10-20x that of the general population, independent of other risk factors: https://www.acc.org/latest-in-cardiology/articles/2020/06/01...

That's still only evidence of correlation, not causation.

No we actually understand the underlying mechanisms here, to a decent extent.

In case of people who have a high level LDL cholesterol, the phagocytes - the scavenger cells in blood consume more cholesterol particles in general. The result is cholesterol is more likely to stick to the walls of affected blood vessels.

This is one of the most thoroughly researched topics in medicine.

Does it mean high LDL will always result in a heart attack? No! Just like not every cigarette smoker dies of lung cancer.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#128
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Robert Lustig is right that fructose (half of common sugar) is responsible for a variety of ills: exactly the ones Americans die of, by the millions. There is a lot of Lustig material on youtube, all of it excellent, all thoroughly grounded in rigorous experimental science. We need more Robert Lustigs. The normal metabolic route is that excess fructose, beyond what the liver can afford to process immediately or store…

Can you share a good article about the misconceptions of cholesterol and the dangers of statins? I've been looking for a decent source. I have a family member on a statin now.

There are some interesting talks about keto and zero carb on Youtube about fat metabolism, cholesterol, fructose, etc.

Off the top of my head, I remember the "zero carb down under" channel where some are hosted, including Lustig's talks.

/r/KetoScience delves into the research, if you are so inclined.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#129

I have an auto-immune disease. The medication prescribed has the side effect of making my "bad" LDL cholesterol skyrocket. I tried everything from diet, to exercise to bring it back down but nothing worked. I'm now on a Statin medication which solved the issue but I'm not thrilled about yet another medication. Before my disease I ate like an average American (sugar, meat, dairy etc.) and my LDL cholesterol was high.…

I'm no doctor, so take what I'm about to say with a ton of salt. Your doctor might disapprove, but salt ain't so bad in reality.

High LDL or high cholesterol doesn't mean anything, per se. The HDL:LDL ratio is a little more important but not so much. Triglycerides and glucose levels are a much bigger indicator of health. Inflammation is the biggest indicator, but AFAIK we do not have ways to measure it directly.

HDL, LDL, cholesterol, triglycerides are fats, but are often not directly correlated with dietary fat. There is more and more evidence triglycerides increases as sugar and refined carbs increase in your diet. This is the biggest misconception in dietary history and we're 20 years away from science and doctors to integrate this new piece of information.

Re: New model could explain old cholesterol mystery

#130
post #5

I am close with someone who has chronic high cholesterol, in addition to a 6-pack abs. She exercises 5x/week and eats .5kg of animal products/week at most, usually white meat. She just visited her heart Dr and was told that her cholesterol is too high and that she needs to cut out animal products entirely as a next step. I am thinking...is this really the modern answer to someone's high cholesterol if they consistent…

It's almost a miracle that a doctor recommends a dietary approach and not describing a pill. Huge step into a right direction.

This shows that doctor's actually know that a diet and other lifestyle factors are the key to health. Not eating pills.

Post reply on HN