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Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

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Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#251
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prototyping takes less time than writing up the requirement in paper. And customers can give more accurate feedback watching the prototype than reading the docs. It rarely happens that once a prototype is written, the developer finds out it was all a wastage and the customer wanted something quite different. Think of the prototype as a Photoshop mock, but interactive like the real application.

You aren’t writing up UX requirements. You’re writing system designs. If you’ve never had to write down and get feedback on a system design that is entirely okay, but as you work on projects of increasing complexity and scope, it becomes more and more important to plan before you write. The prototypes you’re describing are primarily useful for UX iteration, not system design.

> it becomes more and more important to plan before you write.

I'll counter that with a real-world experience.

I contracted at a well known company that did system design & documentation first, without doing prototyping, etc. My first day working on the UI I pointed out that the web app had so many menus that the actual content would barely fit on a 15" laptop screens.

The team debated and debated on how to fix it, but ultimately it kept getting trumped by the documentation team who said the docs are done so we couldn't change anything. I left after a couple of months. They worked on it for a year before finally tossing it out.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#252
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prototyping takes less time than writing up the requirement in paper. And customers can give more accurate feedback watching the prototype than reading the docs. It rarely happens that once a prototype is written, the developer finds out it was all a wastage and the customer wanted something quite different. Think of the prototype as a Photoshop mock, but interactive like the real application.

You aren’t writing up UX requirements. You’re writing system designs. If you’ve never had to write down and get feedback on a system design that is entirely okay, but as you work on projects of increasing complexity and scope, it becomes more and more important to plan before you write. The prototypes you’re describing are primarily useful for UX iteration, not system design.

> it becomes more and more important to plan before you write.

I'll counter that with a real-world experience.

I worked at a well known company that did system design & documentation first, without doing prototyping, etc. My first day working on the UI I pointed out that the web app had so many menus that the actual content would barely fit on a 15" laptop screen.

The team debated and debated on how to fix it, but ultimately it kept getting trumped by the documentation team who said the docs are done so we couldn't change anything.

I left after a couple of months. They worked on it for a year before finally tossing it out.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#253
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You aren’t writing up UX requirements. You’re writing system designs. If you’ve never had to write down and get feedback on a system design that is entirely okay, but as you work on projects of increasing complexity and scope, it becomes more and more important to plan before you write. The prototypes you’re describing are primarily useful for UX iteration, not system design.

A short system design doc with a working prototype is vastly superior to a 50 page design doc with no code. Think of it as the scale model of the house in the original example. It’s a way for sake holder to see and feel what they’re going to get.

Sure, but a few days of intense dedicated discussions /white boarding with a handful of senior engineers can save you from throwing a bunch of different prototypes at a wall to see which one sticks.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#254
post #96

Because Coding is not Working. Coding is not Planning. Coding is not Being Efficient. Coding is not Accomplishing Goals. Coding is not Saving Money. Coding is not Gaining Customers. I am getting paid to get things done in a good manner. If I wanted to have a house built for me, I would not expect to pay somebody and immediately have them start laying bricks without them looking at the land, taking soil samples, sketc…

> Because Coding is not Working. Implementation is work. It's a phase in the SDLC. > Coding is not Accomplishing Goals. If the goal of a particular task is defined as a code deliverable, then coding will help you accomplish that goal.

I think the OP could be better expressed as "coding is not the only kind of Work".

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#255
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came here to say this. Coding is one part of the job but mostly what I get paid to do is solve problems. I've worked on projects that were more process oriented and produced zero code whatsoever and still had the sort of outcomes good software does. The vast majority of my job, outside of writing efficient and secure code, is learning about other systems and domains. Software Engineers can be employed in anything fro…

I’d love to hear about a project that produced zero code. I can’t even imagine it outside of compliance or regulation maybe.

Security, integration, exploring a new feature or design that didn't work out, removing old a/b code for completed experiments....

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#256
Busy talking to people, splitting work into issues, writing the issues to put on project boards, finding which project board to use, searching for which issue I'm working on, searching for which project board I put it in, updating project boards, starring at the 150 crap email filling my inbox everyday, writing filtering rules for my inbox, double checking if I didn't miss an important email, looking up unread Slack messages, following up on unanswered questions, getting up to drink some water, getting up to piss that water, taking a break to eat lunch, dropping my daughter to the daycare, picking her up from the daycare, making coffee, ordering coffee beans, reading up documentation, reading code, reviewing PRs, writing code.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same here! Sometimes I’ve spent weeks thinking through a problem fully, talking to everyone involved (including myself) only to code whatever it was in a couple hours. It’s amazing what our brains can process subconsciously.

You don't think that coding a prototype in a few hours before talking to people would let them better answer your questions and help reduce that time to a few days instead of weeks? Coding is a very versatile tool and can be used to greatly improve communication.

If it's a very specific problem and you have a candidate solution already known, sure. If it's a vague problem or if you just don't know how to solve it, a prototype would do much less, and is probably a waste of time.

In particular, architectural discussions benefit pretty little from prototyping in the initial phases. If you want to decide if your next system should be microservice based or monolithic, prototyping won't do much.

Similarly, if the basic requirements are not yet understood, asking questions about them is more efficient than implementing a version of possible requirements and asking others to correct it.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#259
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Code you write is code everyone will now have to maintain forever False. You may throw code away. Also, did you visit the link?

You can't easily throw away code that somebody else depends on. If you put something useful up, you're stuck with it for a long time, and getting rid of it is another time investment

The question was not "Why aren't you writing code that someone else depends on?"

Coding can be purely a learning process.

Re: Ask HN: Why aren't you coding?

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There are many reasons why not doing X is right, including social/mental recovery and prevention of burnout. You suggested the question seems naive, but you’ve also listed plenty of good answers to “why aren’t you coding?” I’m not sure you can attribute naivety to a simple question like this, and I don’t think it’s necessary. It’s just a question. It’s prompted some interesting responses in this thread.

Interesting how judgment is assumed in this question. A question like “why aren’t you living in Istanbul” feels very neutral, whereas OP’s question can feel like a moral suggestion. Seems unfair to presuppose such things, though especially in a caustic way

I'd definitely also treat a question “why aren’t you living in Istanbul” as non-neutral with an implied assertion that in the absence of any specific argument it the natural choice would be to live in Istanbul; it's pretty much the nature of any question in the form "why aren't you doing X".
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