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“Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
31–40 of 102 posts
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#32The crackdown in Hong Kong was and is severe and that was with the worlds media watching. One can only imagine how bad it is in Xinjiang with the strict control of independent reporting as to what is going on.
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Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#33Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, obviously. But what is the point of bringing that up, honestly?
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Well, one of them happened quite a while ago, and both govts have acknowledged and in some cases apologized for their actions.
And the other one is happening right now and the govt is denying it.
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#35Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, obviously. But what is the point of bringing that up, honestly?
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Judge de current situation by ethical standards of the present and judge historic ones with the eyes of those days. Eugenics was, once upon a time, seen like "good stuff" all around the globo, not anymore.
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#36> Calling it genocide depends on a definition rooted in a UN convention which suggests that one need not actually kill anyone to commit it
This article is ignoring the history of the word "genocide". It was coined by the Polish Jewish lawyer Raphael Lemkin, during the Second World War, to describe what the Nazis were doing to his own people (and to others too). However, Lemkin himself never defined it so narrowly as to only involve mass slaughter. Indeed, Lemkin played a significant role in advocating for the UN Genocide Convention, and the breadth of the definition in the Convention reflects the breadth of Lemkin's own understanding of the word he originated. So I think dismissing this as just something some UN convention says is ignoring the actual history of the origins of the word.
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
As defined in the Geneva convention, genocide also includes forced sterilisation and removal of children from parents. Also, what do you expect the end result of mass incarceration in prison camps to be, other than mass graves?
These aren't extermination camps, people are eventually being released from them. Their notional aim is re-education and making people genuinely love Big Brother/the Communist Party, but I doubt the deciders are naive enough to believe that will actually happen. Instead, it's sufficient that the detainees become broken, intimidated and compliant.
Recent interview showed they also round up people for "further education" after releasing them the first time.
Assuming the allegations are true- psychological, physical torture, rape, forced work and so on- is it not reasonable to assume that not all who enter will leave?
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#38No, it isn't. From the article: > It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women. But it is not slaughtering them. Not slaughtering them makes no difference to whether it's genocide. Genocide is about "intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group". Sterilizing them counts. As would snatching the children of that group and placing them in families of your own group (to give an exam…
How do you quantify the "in part" portion of that definition: "intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group"?
What's the minimum number or percent of a group that must be targeted in order for an act to be considered genocide according to that definition?
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not saying that you're wrong -- would you include the US eugenics programs [1] or the Australian forced adoptions [2] in that? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics_in_the_United_States [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Generations
Yes. Same for the residential schools in Canada my grandmother attended https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_sc...
IIUC that also happened in the US
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Indian_boarding_schoo...
Re: “Genocide” is the wrong word for the horrors of Xinjiang
#40Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, obviously. But what is the point of bringing that up, honestly?
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The west is reflecting on its own actions, but (lacking a central ideological authority!) that doesn't make every person and institution flip their position on this. It gets acknowledged piecewise, and the quantity of culture war fought over it is considerable.
This 26th January we heard about the conflict between the people who call that day "Australia Day" and the people who call it "Invasion Day".