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MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

reuters.com

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Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#671

Post by nexthash »

hntrader wrote: post #607
nexthash wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Set this chart to "all" and tell me that this price movement is not a bubble. There is no earthly reason for why a "BitCoin" is worth $47,459.66 as of this post. https://www.coindesk.com/price/bitcoin Cryptocurrency adoption in 3rd world countries like Nigeria, Vietnam, and the Philippines is not a good thing. It's actually really sad, because it means they cannot rely on or trust their country's currency. Therefore,…

I can say the same things about artwork or gold. To me these things are totally useless, paint on a canvas (when I could just look at a photo of the same thing) and a shiny piece of metal, no utility whatsoever, who cares? Well the value doesn't come from one person's assertion of value, it's supply and demand. Apparently enough people like paint on a canvas and shiny metal for their own reasons.

Sorry, but in case you don't have much intuition, let me fill you in. People value gold and artwork because it is beautiful and you can have it for yourself. Gold also has several utilitarian uses. Now compare these things to a digital token. Can I frame and admire a digital token? Can I use it for anything? Do I even understand what it is or how it works most of the time? No.

So it therefore has no value for me. Millions of people like me have the same basic intuition. Others, like you, are driven by ideology and see digital tokens as something nice and valuable that can be "kept", for ideological reasons. This value has no basis in anything physical like looks or usefulness, and has no battle-tested authority telling you it is responsible for making it useful.

Decentralization doesn't count, because as I've already said many times there is no trust or recourse in a decentralized system with random people. So you haven't given me a reason for why a "Bitcoin" should be worth $40k+. That's why I say its sad that authorities in other countries are so unreliable that people have to buy into this disreputable game to stay afloat.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#672

Post by xirbeosbwo1234 »

shawnz wrote: post #457
xirbeosbwo1234 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin, at least, absolutely does not solve this problem. Let's leave aside its volatility for now and assume it magically stays at exactly the same price. You are then left using a currency where each transaction costs several dollars and takes a half an hour, and that's the present state of affairs when no one is using it . So you would keep your cryptocurrency in a bank and transfer it through the normal channels…

> So you would keep your cryptocurrency in a bank and transfer it through the normal channels You do your daily spending through the normal channels, sure, but why would you need to keep your cryptocurrency savings in a bank in such a situation?

Bitcoin is fantastically slow. It can handle about 120 million transactions per year. That is absolutely 100% unusable for anything at scale. If 30 million people used Bitcoin, they could each do about one transaction every three months and the fees would be sky-high. That is not good enough, not even for savings.

Other cryptocurrencies are faster by smallish constant factors. None of them, at this time, are scalable. None of them are fast enough to be usable by millions of people.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#673

Post by brianobush »

omegaworks wrote: post #659
tomca32 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a fair comment. I don't use Transferwise, rather just wire money via Chase Bank to an IBAN account. You are right that there is an intermediary bank involved in the process. Also yes, within Europe, an IBAN to IBAN transfer is pretty much instantaneous. However US is not in the IBAN system, so that's a different story. There are probably multiple reasons why the transfer takes a week, but the spirit of my comm…

My worry is that we will continue to see the pace of international money transfers increase as competition, trust and infrastructure improves. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is limited structurally by the very mechanism that guarantees its accuracy. Today miners burn 77Kwh of energy to mine the block that records your transaction[1]. Sure hashing tech might get more efficient, but the block mining complexity increases t…

Staking (for Ethereum 2.0) will be the mechanism over the current proof of work method. This will reduce the energy cost significantly by removing the requirement of mining.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#674

Post by warkdarrior »

rodiger wrote: post #564
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where do the returns come from? Does the interest return come from actual investments? Or is it paid forward by newcomers? The latter is the literal definition of a ponzi scheme. There's no free lunch when it comes to generating interest.

Borrowers pay more than lenders. You get a cut of those fees as interest. There's risk there of course, but it isn't magic money or a ponzi.

So the borrowing costs must be quite high to warrant that revenue.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#675

Post by brianobush »

sorbits wrote: post #442
tomca32 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in the US, but originally I'm from Croatia. I wire money every month to my family back there. It takes 5 work days for the wire to fully clear. Since 5 days is a full work week, it almost always bleeds over to the weekend and in reality takes 7 days. BTC might still be a terrible system for international transactions but it's still 168 times faster than the one that exists now.

> BTC might still be a terrible system for international transactions but it's still 168 times faster than the one that exists now. It is 168 times faster than what you currently use . There are services like TransferWise who specialize in fast international money transfers. I could imagine that part of your delay is because the bank your family use (in Croatia) does not themselves handle international transfers, so…

I wouldn't consider TransferWise fast. I used to send money to Canada from the US and it took a day or so for verification and settlement.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#676

Post by panarky »

edgyquant wrote: post #605
panarky wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is only "controlled" for some baskets of goods. If your basket of goods consists of salty snacks and consumer electronics, then yes, inflation is controlled. But if your basket of goods consists of Hamptons real estate and fine art, then your inflation rate feels a lot steeper. Investors are finding it very difficult to discover investments that don't depreciate with respect to that second basket of goods.…

I’m talking about currency not appreciating commodities, assets or investment. The US dollar, and the currencies of most western nations, is/are in fact controlled and inflate at a targeted rate.

When I think about inflation, I think about the purchasing power of money for the basket of goods I'm likely to purchase. I'm less interested in theoretical or academic concepts like the rate of growth of M2 or the velocity of money. Preserving purchasing power over time is my priority.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#677

Post by cheaprentalyeti »

devname wrote: post #157
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #2

These stories usually spur more enthusiasm for buying cryptocurrency, but ironically those buyers aren’t interested in spending cryptocurrency using their MasterCard. They’re hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency from these announcements, driving the price up. Or, more likely, they’re just hoping other people will buy cryptocurrency and not use it in these spending systems. Spending cryptocurrency would result…

I want people to earn and spend Bitcoin Cash. Almost all bitcoiners want this.

If all bitcoiners wanted that Bitcoin Cash would be worth more than Bitcoin.

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#678

Post by warkdarrior »

Solvitieg wrote: post #585

It's bizarre that in this tread, the US dollar is treated like an immaculate flawless tool for transferring value. But in every thread about economics, its agreed the US dollar lacks trusts, is being manipulated by the fed, and is the leading cause of gross wealth inequality.

> the US dollar [...] is the leading cause of gross wealth inequality

I have never seen this claim made before. Do we have an explanation on why the US dollar causes inequality? Would it improve if the US changed their currency to Yuan or Euro tomorrow? Also, how will cryptocurrencies prevent gross wealth inequality?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#679

Post by janoside »

arcticbull wrote: post #137
janoside wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point, you ask... Here is Ross Stevens, CEO of Stone Ridge Asset Management, describing "the point" for an hour: https://www.microstrategy.com/en/bitcoin/videos/bitcoin-macr... It sounds like you've made up your mind about Bitcoin, but I believe you've missed the big picture. The above video, if you watch it with an open mind, will help you to glimpse it. Hint: it's not about cappuccino, it's about living…

You haven't shared "the point" just a link to MicroStrategy, a failed software company whose CEO had to pay an $11 million dollar SEC settlement decades ago for cooking the books, making a desperate Hail Mary play buying near the top of a speculative mania in a bid to gain relevancy. MSTR is the new "Long Island Iced Tea" -> "Long Blockchain Inc" rebrand [1] Humorously enough, the same is roughly true of Tesla, a car…

Your view on currency exposes your extremely elitist bias.

Are you aware that a large portion of the population is unable to purchase assets? What do you say to these people? What do you say as the dollars they earn pay less of their rent? Less of their healthcare? Soon...less of their groceries?

Re: MasterCard to open up network to cryptocurrencies

#680

Post by hertzrat »

nexthash wrote: post #578
vbezhenar wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your view must be skewed by privilege of having stable currency. Currency of my country lost 250% of its value over last 7 years. It's not bitcoin-level volatile, but close to it. Thankfully I have an option to use USD to hoard money, but that option is not something that's given, in many countries you just can't exchange for fair price. I agree that for someone living in US or EU there's no much point using BTC.

It doesn't make a difference whether a currency is paper or digital - if digital currency takes over in your country, the exact same thing will happen. The government will regulate its use, punish those using crypto 'unlawfully', and print more when it needs to, making it lose value. See, it doesn't matter what the technology behind a currency is, it ain't going anywhere on your government's turf without permission.…

In practice, how would “print more” work for blockchain?
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